The HubHeroes Podcast

Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed apartments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Are you held captive by the evil menace, lord lack, lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt? Knowledge.

Never fear hub heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the league of extraordinary inbound heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute. Hub Heroes, it's time to unite and activate your powers.

Do you remember when, like, it would go on and we'd have to talk about Max or Devin working working at, like, HubSpot. Yeah.

Yeah.

At least there's not that anymore. So, Bruce, how how how you doing?

Good. What wait. Who's who'd you ask? How you doing? Liz?

Guys, are you okay? Do you need a hug? How are we this morning?

Monday I hug might be

just had I just had a week long vacation because the kids were off for April vacation. I got sick day one. Oh. And this is the first day I felt better since then.

Well, I'm glad

you're sick for the entire thing. So I'm not great, but yeah. Cool. Wish you could've enjoyed my vacation. That's sick, but yeah.

Feel like I just Hi, guys.

That song. Hi, Liz.

I know we're all overwhelmed with excitement, curiosity, energy. I can feel it in this room right now. Oh, yeah. We are back for part two of our conversation about HubSpot pricing. Now, for the listeners who joined us last week, you know that this week we're digging into tears, mistakes, best practices.

But George, I wanna turn to you first because as I recall, there were some nuggets of wisdom you wanted to kick out of Max's brain first before we moved on to this rest of this conversation.

Well Nuggets of wisdom about pricing.

Yeah. I just I think man, I'm trying to remember back then if there were like some nuggets of wisdom.

Well, don't you guys know my toxic trait?

What? Uh-oh.

My toxic trait is at HubSpot. I never concerned myself with what the product cost because I didn't want it to ruin it for me.

That's good.

I didn't wanna, like, know how much this cost. I just wanted to be able to talk about how awesome it was, and I always feared that if I knew how much the thing cost I mean, I have a general idea. But, I mean, I had a general idea. I think I'd I know now. But

That's not a bad idea.

You know? Yeah. But I know about tears, though.

Jesus, guys. Okay. Alright. Everybody together. Are we here?

Are we ready?

We're so ready, Liz.

We're ready, Liz. Okay.

We're so ready. Rock and roll.

So, Max, I would just be curious. What do you think of HubSpot's pricing structure? How do you feel about it?

Listen, listen, here's the deal. Regardless of how many dollars it actually is, this is what I love about it. And I'll tell the story that I've told many times to people in that why I think the way HubSpot packages its product makes a ton of sense, right? And I think it's because it's something that even still to this day, you can start for free and grow into as you need it, but not buy what you don't need until you do need it, right? And I think that's a very logical story a lot of people can follow, right?

When most businesses start and they don't have a lot of money, they typically have a product, someone who sells it and a list of people they wanna sell it to at a bare minimum, right? Or a basic idea,

right?

And like, that's really kind of all you need to step into the free HubSpot CRM, right? You can get your contacts in there, you can get your companies in there, you can manage some deals and you can track the process of trying to sell some stuff to some people, right? And oftentimes the lowest barrier of entry into like a paid product that HubSpot offers is what? Sales hub, right? Sales hub seat here, sales hub seat there, right?

And as people are starting to play with the tool, they start to go, oh, what do you mean? I'm kind of sick of sending the same email over and over again. Oh, I could do a template or I could do a sequence or I could do the meeting scheduler or things like that. Right? And that's like a really good way to kind of like step into your first like paid version of HubSpot by getting that, you know, inaugural salesperson, becoming a little bit more efficient in the way that they're initially contacting those those those customers or that spreadsheet of people that you have.

Right? But the problem is, eventually, that list dwindles down to nothing because those people either buy or they tell you to off and you realize, hey. Wow. We need more leads. So this is where you might look at the marketing hub.

Right? And maybe you bring in your first marketing hire. You get them I don't know. Like, example, I was I was always saying it's like writing blog posts. Right?

But you get them creating content. You get them actually, you know, marketing your stuff. Maybe you're setting up your social media presence for the first time and you want a way to manage that. Maybe you're trying to email folks and, you know, you wanna have a better way of of doing that. Right?

There's a lot of reasons. See, last time I told this story, marketing and Content Hub weren't different things. Right? So it's it's interesting to think about how they kind of like weave in together. Right?

But you can work your way into that. And then if your marketing team is pumping on all cylinders and you're creating a lot of demand for your products through those efforts, right, and then you got your sales team being super efficient, the output of that is gonna be more customers. Right? And when the salesperson is sick of fielding all those conversations and you start to bring on your first support hire, then you can start to dive into the the service hub. Right?

And so I just like how, sure, they offer incentives for you to buy it all at once, but the the truth of the matter is is not every company is ready to do that, especially if they're just starting out. Right? So I do still love the fact that, yes, it's one big happy platform and it all is one product technically. Right? But you can ease your way into it as the business needs to.

Right? Instead of taking on this giant burden of paying for all this stuff that you don't need right at the very beginning. Right? So that's what I think about it. I still love it.

I love the whole hub model and how everything is like compartmentalized and separate and kind of like you can step into it when you need it.

I mean, I get it, But as the guy on this podcast who said, I think we've hubbed ourself to death. It's like CMS Hub and Marketing Hub and Sales Hub and Operations Hub and Content Hub and Hub Hub Hub Hub Hub Like, But, she's but from a pricing standpoint, from a structuring what you get standpoint, which, which by the way, if you don't want to feel like you've hubbed yourself to death, then you just do customer platform and, you know, you just start to rock and roll. But there's a lot that we could talk about when it comes to like, especially breaking it down to each tier and kind of the differences of like, because, you know, you mentioned kind of growing with you, Max, like free to starter to pro to

like Mhmm.

That's a there's a lot. Like, there's a lot in that.

There's a lot.

Well, last week, we were talking about the huge discrepancy between starter and pro, like, as far as price goes, especially when you're at the the tier like, the platform level getting the whole shebang, which usually offers the best discounts. You know, they give you the best discount when you're getting the bundle. Right?

Mhmm.

But, yeah, that's like I mean, you're at $20 a month if you're billed annually or whatever, and then it's like $14.50 a month. Boom. You know? Yeah. That's a big boy jump.

Right?

Yeah. And I think, like, too, like, sure, there's different features and different hubs, but I think also the I don't know how to, like, phrase this, but, like, between starter pro and enterprise, there's also sort of, like, a generalized vibe of, like, what that means. Right? So, like, for me, it's, like, starter is it's the taste. Right?

And if you got, like, a small team in that department, like, that might be where you kinda start with that. Right? And it's really kind of giving you an idea of what it can do, but, like, there's limits on it and and things like that. I feel like the the breadth of functionality always comes in at pro. Right?

And to me, the the general sense that I get of most of the features in enterprise, and and maybe this is, like, less true today, but this is and I'm I'm I'm just saying that thinking that there's probably gonna be an example even though I don't have one. It always felt like the enterprise tools were really the stuff that would come in that's only relevant to larger scaling teams. Right? Like, so for exam and and right now, it ends up being like the breeding ground for new features before they get trickled down to pro. Right?

Right.

You know, or the one that you get when you have like a high contact level or something like that. Mhmm. But, you know and there are, like, those cheeky little features that they'll just, like, tuck up in the enterprise to get people to, like, upgrade into it. Right? I mean, custom objects is a is a huge one.

Exactly.

You know, we're on the we're on the precipice of that not being a thing anymore. Right?

With Especially if we get those app defined objects, like,

computer defined objects. Library. Right? You're only gonna see object library get bigger. Right?

Yeah. Or partner objects would be nice too down the road someday, I think. True. If you're a partner and you have a specific build

Yeah.

That'd be really helpful.

But, like, you know, I like I always refer back to things like SSO, even though I think SSO just got pulled down to pro. I might be crazy.

SSO or

just Yeah. Like, single sign on. I maybe. I might be wrong. Right?

But, like, when you look at something like SSL or playbooks, right, and even though playbooks did get pulled down. Right? You know, those were things where it became it was, like, more relevant when you had a scaling team because where those tools became relevant was really only when you had a lot of people to deal with. Right? So, like, single sign on, that one's obvious.

Right? Like, you know, if you're you're managing a lot of users and a lot of logins, like, you know, it just makes sense that you do use SSL. With playbooks, right, I mean, when those first started, like, what was the whole point of those tools? It was like enablement at scale of people using the CRM, not like two people. Right?

It was like when you had people joining, you know, your your company and you wanted them to have easy resources on, like, how to run a call or how to do this or how to do that. Like, playbooks helped with that.

And to get the data in consistently. Super important. Across new hires. Like, how do you get people to do the same thing in the same way when it's just properties on the left hand side or whatever?

Yeah. Another really good example is Operations Hub Pro when they had datasets. Right? Again, the real big thing with datasets is like enabling teams with the data that they actually need and what they need to do with reporting. Again, something that doesn't necessarily become super relevant until you have a bunch of different stakeholders, you know, trying to access data in a way that makes sense inside of your HubSpot reporting.

Right? So, like, again, I don't know if that tracks as much today just because of how much they've like dragged down to pro, even though like, you know, they've dragged it down to pro without having all the features. So like they still kind of give you like a reason to go to enterprise. Right. But I mean, that's the other kind of thing to think about.

Are always building reasons to get you to enterprise and not in a negative way, by the way. Like, for instance

Yeah.

Journeys. Right? The new journeys that's marketing enterprise. Owned. Right?

Yeah. And I think you guys are having a conversation that's very interesting because it's like, you don't need it until it's relevant. By the way, relevancy could be small team, large team. Doesn't It matter. It's just till the things are relevant.

I think that's one of the biggest things that I would hope people would do. Many times we go to a pricing page and we just look at the price instead of looking at the things that we need that we might not get. For instance, if we start this conversation where it's like, let's just take marketing hub, which by the way, we could dive into each and every one of the different hubs if we wanted to, but we'd be here for 27 episodes. If you need campaign reporting, Starter is not going to be for you because you can't do campaign reporting in the marketing Starter. Or if you want to do social media, it's not going to be in the Starter.

You have to go to Pro to be able to get that campaign reporting, which by the way, now is super powerful with the new campaign's goals and the new dashboard and the fact that the sales stuff is in there. And we've done an episode on that. You can go back and listen to our campaigns rant. If we just continue to think about that, like if you need presets, if you need custom reporting, if you need calculated properties, if you need AB testing, Starter's not for you. You almost have What to think

is Marketing Hub Starter even today?

So Marketing Hub Starter, it's literally like if I look at this, right, it's gonna be you get email marketing, five x the marketing contacts you have, you get forms, you get simple marketing automation, then you get the form. That's just after

the form submission automation.

Yeah. Send an email after the form gets filled out.

Email automations in there. Some limited features around email health reporting, but again, not full features, but limited features. Obviously content limited to email only, standard web analytics dashboards,

basic You get

some ad targeting, some conversational bots with limited features, sub domains, one sub domain, one country code. There are some things-

It says marketing email without marketing workflows. Mean, Workflows, essentially.

Yeah, essentially. But so that's the thing. Like there's, if you look at the list of dashes, dashes meaning you don't get it, you quickly go, okay, well, starter is a great place to start, but how long can I actually live here before I am going to need things, you know, like that are that are important?

Like, I said, no social. No. Like, there's not even like one or one account. No, no. That's crazy.

They should bring that down starter.

Yeah. They should they should bring that down to, like, allow one account or something.

Well But how do you do that? I mean, well, we're

not very like, far out. Can live

with the amount of accounts

you hook up. But yeah.

So then the other thing is, like, again, that that just goes back to, like, the mass amount of, like, chasm that we talked about about last week of starter to pro as far as a cost. But there's also a chasm of what you get and what you don't get.

This is what I want to start dialling into here because one of the promises of this week's episode is really to dig into the tiers. And what's interesting about what I'm hearing right now is maybe something that people have felt who have been in the HubSpot ecosystem for some time. The differences and the the differences in the tiers, starter, pro, enterprise, on its face still make a lot of sense. But it has gotten a little bit more complicated, and the difference in pricing between the tiers has become much greater. And then when we add in this mix of what we were talking about last week with marketing contacts, now they're doing seat pricing.

It's Yeah. Much more of kind of like a complicated calculation to figure out what it is you're paying for and what it is you actually need.

Yeah. I mean, you almost have to go through this with like a fine tooth comb, if you will, because if you're an organization out there and you're like, Hey, we need something like a sandbox account. All right. Enterprise. No questions asked.

Like, because it's not in Pro, right? Or if you're like a event visualizer or organize your teams, like up to 300 teams in Enterprise, right? Like you kind of have to go and look at this from just a and again, not to be that guy, but like, when you go to market with sales, you have a strategy. When you go to market with your content creation, you have a strategy. Yet, are we taking time, are people taking time to have a strategy on what they need to purchase based on what there is and isn't versus what they need and what they don't?

And sometimes I don't know if people are taking the time to dig as far as like, for instance, there's AI social inbox insights now that's literally on the pricing page. But guess what? Enterprise. Not pro. And that's another place where we're starting to get a little bit of this chasm where a lot of the really high end AI powered stuff, because at the morning show that I do with all the updates with Chris, Carolyn and Casey, it's like a lot of the AI stuff, you'll see that it's dipping into the enterprise account versus even a pro account.

Some of it's in pro, don't get me wrong. But is Starter really going to have much of that? And so why are most people buying HubSpot now? Right? Is it because sales?

Is it because marketing? Is it because commerce? Is it because content? Is it because AI? Think of a world where the last two acquisitions of HubSpot, right?

Frame and what's the CPQ? Cash flow. Cash got to start to remember who's coming to our doors, the HubSpot doors. They're not my doors, by the way. I wish they were my doors some days.

But there's just a lot that people have to How many times are you talking about brand add ons or business units? And you immediately know that that has to be like enterprise. And and there's just yeah. Anyway,

a tool does a lot, man. And it does definitely feel like, whereas like sales and service, I think still to this day, like, lot of those tools seem like with enterprise, it's like the most relevant ones are the ones that are only or the the ones that are that the tools that are in enterprise are really mostly relevant to, like, larger teams. Right? But then you look at marketing hub enterprise, and it's just like the fancy bells and whistles are the ones that live in enterprise. Right?

Like, they get a lot of that stuff in there. But, like, you can even see that too. Like, you know, they kinda do that with some features in in enter for, like, some weird ones in in in sales hub. Right? Like, you guys remember the the workflow action to be able to, like, enroll people in a sequence.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That's that's enterprise only. Right? And I think part of me wants to believe that, like, they were just so sick and tired of, like, hearing people complain that workflows couldn't do that and and knowing that everyone wanted to be able to have a workflow and roll someone to sequence they were just like, all right, you, it's an enterprise. Go buy it if you want it. Right?

Which, by the way, as soon as you enable that feature, you have to tell people that they might have to rethink the actual sequences that they're building.

Right.

For enabling that action because it's in somewhat ways going completely off of the original design of what everybody was teaching sequences to be.

Yes. It's supposed

to be human. Right?

Oh, dude. It's supposed

be actually from a person.

We've you've seen me yell a lot about that whole drama over the years. Mhmm. But yeah. So one thing I'll say about the pricing, though, George Yeah. Right, is that I don't think a lot of people know, like, HubSpot has one of the best, most transparent pricing calculators of any SaaS company out there.

Like if you go to hubspot.com/pricing, they literally lay out everything. It's not like, oh, top to sales to get pricing or anything like that. Right. Like, literally everything. You can you can look at the hubs that I just buy.

You can look at the platforms. You can see how the pricing scales depending on the variables such as your seats and your contacts. And it's not like buying a car where, like, you see that price online and then you go and you'll find out like, oh, well, that's the price if you're if you're a qualify for these seven different things and you're a veteran and you're this and you're all these other things that you wouldn't qualify for, it ends up being $10,000 more. It's it's the price only gets, like, lower from what you see on the website because Yeah.

When you talk to sales, they try and wheel you a discount.

Yeah. They try to they're they're willing discounts, especially if you talk to them close to the end of the month. Right?

Oh,

yeah. So, you know, remember that, like, when you go to the HubSpot pricing calculator, like, you're talking worst case scenario list. Right? And then, like, plus whatever the onboarding is, but then you see it. Wow.

They're showing lists.

Well yeah. But listen. Listen. Listen. Listen.

Let's let's let's hit the brakes for a hot second because there's a couple of things that I've historically seen. And by the way, the words that are coming out of my mouth here in the next couple of minutes, I love HubSpot. I don't know where my life would be without HubSpot. But let's be honest, the good old days are no longer the good old days. Right?

So like literally to get a discount, there is a mathematical equation of things that you have to know and pay attention to, to actually talk in a direct reps language to be able to even try to get a 0.5, one percent, 1.5% discount. Like the days of going out and just being like, yeah, give them a 40 or give them a 30. Like those days are gone. Like you might be able to squeeze a little bit of juice out of that lemon, but it ain't nothing like it used to be when it comes to trying to get people a discount. So yes, can the price be lower?

Yes. Is it massive amounts? Probably depends on how large the organization is, how much they're going to come out of the wallet, how quick. So just know that there's a rubrics around that. The other thing too is there's add ons for a reason and there's limits for a reason.

And if you're an organization that like you build a system and all of sudden you hit the limits and you gotta start hacking or upgrading to these add ons. Now all of a sudden the price can go larger than you thought. And let's just talk about the amount of humans that I've helped where they weren't paying attention to their marketing contacts and they imported a list. And all of a sudden, Billy was sweating because he thought he was going to lose his job because now all of a sudden it's like a thousand dollars more per the bazillion contacts that got imported as marketing. So we got to be careful.

Again, I love HubSpot, but it is designed in a way now with marketing contacts, seats, add ons, and limitations that the price might be the price or the price might change real quick, real fast.

Yeah. I think that's that's where that's where that legal.hubspot.com page comes in. Right? That we, you know, were talking about last week that we didn't really review here. But if you go there and you see the HubSpot products and services catalog, like you'll you'll be able to go down and see the add ons and what the add ons are.

And like to us, you know, seasoned HubSpot people who've been in most, not all, obviously, because there's so many pot spots in HubSpot and new ones are coming out every five nanoseconds. But, you know, us seasoned people, we understand what these words mean, but a prospective buyer who maybe is shopping for a CRM, like a more powerful enterprise grade CRM from some sort of industry specific type CRM, which it doesn't have this kind of functionality or configurability, you know, they're gonna be like, oh, okay, marketing hub. And like, the, you know, some of these words, it does you don't even really know. Yeah. What does that translate to in the user interface?

What does that translate to in functionality? Like let alone the seats and limits, but like, do I need that? Or like, Oh, when I go to pro I get however many custom lists and custom properties. But if I get multiple pro does that stack? Like it doesn't kinda always tell you Yeah.

Exactly. Because it's a little bit convoluted for, like, people who've never really been there before.

Cute brother.

I think there's there's hidden prices in there, if that makes sense. Like, just because of not, not like intentionally at all, but because of like, you know, new user inexperience, I suppose.

Yeah. I would even say if you're not a new user, right? Yeah. Like I had the assignment last week that somebody wanted taught what the difference between the seats, permissions, and features were based on the hubs inside of their portal. And so then also, if you start to think about like, well, do they get five snippets, 50,000 snippets, 5,000 snippets?

They get 10,000 of this or 5,000 of that? Is it core or is it sales or is it service? By the way, one of the fundamental things is, oh, I tried to give them a core and a sales seat. Oh my God, no. Sales has core in it.

There's confusion when you think of all these different layers, which, by the way, if you're listening to this and you have never gone to legal.hubspot.com hubspot product and service catalog, I feel like I should

use a

short link for that, like sidekickstrategies.com/catalog or something. I probably won't, but I probably should. But if you go that, this at least helps. But even this, and again, this is where, you know, I heard Max talk about transparency and the calculator. Even this, if you go to here and you search seats and you try to make some type of informed decision or create some type of presentation around what it actually means in a real world scenario in a port, it's difficult.

So Chad, you're talking about like people who are new to the ecosystem. I would even say those of us who have been in the ecosystem for a while are finding it like interesting to navigate all of the conversations and layers that need to happen. And so I can totally understand where somebody new comes and goes, customer platform, sure. Or they'll be like, or they'll hear these words, Hey, we can get it to you for a cheaper price as customer, Well, I don't need Service Hub. It doesn't matter.

You get a better price. Okay, sure. And then you've purchased something that you're not going to use to which it's like, then why do you even have it? Because that's going to have complexity and convoluted, like somebody's going to come up to you and be like, Hey, what's tickets? Because by the way, you bought it, but you didn't find it because you knew you weren't going to use it.

So here's the thing. Where I go with this is how do you pay what you're supposed to pay for the things that you truly need and don't show anything to anybody that they don't need to like really make this the most streamlined, optimized, possible product platform for the people?

Yeah. You know what? I think I'm gonna issue a rare retraction. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Yeah. I I'm I'm I'm I'm really digging back through the the pricing page.

It's changed.

It's definitely changed. I mean, so don't get me wrong. It has there, but what it doesn't have like, it's got a lot. And still compared to other platforms, I think it's still the best. However Yeah.

It used to also include all those like other weird add ons. Right? Like dedicated IP, transactional email, like all these things. Like, used to show, like, you when you selected a certain tier, it would show any available upgrades that you could also get. Right?

I also, like, don't love. I don't love that in the marketing sections, they don't mention core seats anywhere, which is, like, kinda goofy to me. You know? They don't explain, like I mean, maybe they do explain seats or something somewhere. Right?

Yeah. I think if you're creating your own bundle, if you do create your own Bundoo Bundoo

Bundoo?

And you're gonna make your own Bundoo, then you can ask someone to put on boys. Listen.

Here's a fun little testy test. Do control f and type in seat. On where? On the entire pricing page, at least well, let's go back to last week's conversation. On the tab that I'm on for business and enterprise, if I do control F in seats, I see the word seats four times on the page.

Okay? And it's in small, like includes five seats. Additional seats start at $45 By the way, I'm reading professional customer platform right now. Includes seven seats. Additional seats start at $75 Okay.

But it doesn't say what kind of seats. It just says five seats or seven seats. Right? And so like, if I go over to, for individuals in small teams and I search for that seats, guess what? It's, it's again, four times, but it's just talking.

It's not talking. There is nowhere HubSpot. I hope you're hearing this. There is nowhere for me that I know of for me to easily go and visually see and understand what I get, what I need pertaining to support Sales? Is it marketing automation?

Is it 5,000 versus five? How can I easily see, not as a partner, but as somebody who might come by the platform, exactly what the flip a sales seat is or a service seat is, and it just could be better?

I mean, I'm pretty sure there's knowledge based articles on it, but it's not like they're linking to them from those pricing pages. Right? Because they just want you to click talk to sales. I mean, what I will say, sure. Do I wish the pricing calculator was more in-depth than it was before?

Yes. But, like, also, that catalog page has, like, literally everything in it. Right?

Like, have to find the cost of, like, navigating that.

Yeah. Yeah. It's brutal. Right? It's not it's not super accessible.

Right? But but they could have hit all behind a button that says talk to sales. You know what I mean? So you still gotta give them credit for that. Right?

Like, that they they put everything out on one big thing that you can go find it and look it up. And it's not like it's, like, insanely difficult. There's just a lot of shit you can buy in there. Right?

Well, it's because of how feature rich it is. Like, I understand that. Like, you build something, you gotta get paid for when people use it. Like, I totally understand that. Right?

Yeah. Like, it's a business.

Yeah. And, I mean, that's the the the downside of it having a billion and a half features is that they're all gonna cost money, and you gotta somehow figure out I mean, you know what? Here's the other thing. Right? Maybe the product just got too damn complicated for them to build a pricing calculator for it.

Mac. That's very possible. They were probably like, alright. Now we're gonna do this core seats thing. And they're like, fuck that.

We just got done doing, like, the doing the sorry. We're doing contact pricing. Right? Like, in all

the doing great.

So do we

You know, core seats, that's enough. Let's just tell them to talk to

So I know we only have a few minutes left, Bliss, and and conversations today. But Max, you know I love you, right, boo? Before spit these words out of my mouth.

Earlier, you were talking about how much you still love this is becoming a very emotional.

If you go to the Google's, the source, as my friend, Mark DeSherard would say of sort all knowledge source truth and light Google, and you type HubSpot seats. Okay. There is one knowledge article that shows up at the top called manage seats. I'll get back to that. Yeah.

Then all of sudden it's community, community, Red Pandas. Hey, Moby, love you and the team. HubSpot core seats for HubSpot standard hub. Then there's a BBD boom. There's some videos, there's Hub Gym.

There's upcoming changes to HubSpot's pricing, which was like a HubSpot news release. Then it goes to legal.hubspot.com, the thing that we were just talking about that I already said. And then we're at page two, which page two means nothing else exists. If I go over to manage seats, their explanation of Sales Hub seat. Sales Hub Professional Enterprise provides your user with access to use advanced features for Sales Hub Professional Enterprise.

Thanks. Service Hub Seat. Service Hub Professional Enterprise provides your user with access to use advanced features for Service Hub Professional or Thanks. Okay. Then there's a link later down to the pricing model that, but it's before you get started, it's add and remove paid seats.

So, it's literally like the management side of it. Transfer a core seat. What else do we got on here? That's it. Transfer a core seat, assign an ad and remove Sales Hub Service Hub seats, and assign core view only seats basically.

So the one knowledge article that actually shows up on the search result doesn't even go into I want something that'd be like, and FYI, here's what advanced features means. Yeah. Here's the list of what it can do.

Yeah. George, click on images in your Google search.

Hang on. Give me one second. Then I'll shut I've run into clients where because by the way, well, I'm a super admin. I used to be able to see everything. Sweet.

Now that we have sales seats, you can't see sequence analytics as a super admin unless you have a sales seat. Like, this is the I'm done.

Oh, I was just gonna say click on images. And in in your same Google search, and helpful infographics are not from HubSpot, and the only thing from knowledge HubSpot is, like, screenshots of the UI. Oh, man.

Good lord.

So so Like, or like people trying to explain it. Right? Like, the red pandas has a helpful, oh, view only core sales and service and different types, you know, little pictures of chairs and everything. It's great.

Yes. Yes. So So

as we wrap up today's conversation, because we have hit time, even if we end up having to do a third episode about this, we could decide about that later. I do want to bring some center of gravity to you crazy cats. Okay? If someone were to ask each of you and Chad, we're gonna start with you just so you know, I'm coming to you first. Somebody says, what is the one mistake I can't make when it comes to managing my HubSpot pricing?

Because we talked in the last episode a bit about you can end up under buying, over buying, under utilizing, over utilizing. There are a lot of things that can go wrong, particularly with an ecosystem of pricing that is much more complex. So if there is one mistake you would tell people they should not make, what should it be?

Don't buy more than you need. Like, that is, I think, really important because it gets a lot harder to make the value proposition to leadership when you're not using one third or two thirds of the stuff you bought because you just got the bundle, and they are really happy to sell you more stuff mid contract and give you a discount for it. Like, at least in my experience, maybe not as much anymore as Jar Georgia maybe was saying. But, like, you could just extend that contract, get a little upgrade when you run into that paywall that you literally can't find any reasonable way to work around, and you wanna bring that thing natively into HubSpot, except always buy operations hub pro.

Pace, dude. Pace. That is actually

Dude, I love ops pro, but that's just

so true.

I won't work in your portal unless you have ops pro. Get out

of here. Ops in the

standards. Wow.

Yeah. I'd say, you know, if you're first time HubSpot buyers, if you're if you're in a situation where you're buying anything above starter, right, talk to an existing user. Right? Like, ask them, hey, is there anything you wish you bought? Is there anything you regret buying?

Things like that. Just because those people will without a doubt have probably figured it out by now. If there's anything they wish they either bought differently or negotiated differently or or stuff that they got that they don't use. Right? Mhmm.

Talk to someone who's using it. And and and here's the thing. Can you ask your HubSpot sales rep for a referral? Sure. I think it's probably much more effective if you go enter the HubSpot LinkedInosphere and say, hey, hashtag HubSpot community.

We're looking to buy this for the first time. Would anyone wanna, like, give us their thoughts on whatever? And you'll get a billion people. Oh, yeah. Crappy up.

Half of them might be partners trying to sell you something. Right? But, like, you can figure out who the users are versus the partners. And even people who are partners, they just like talking about it, so they'd probably give you some free advice. Right?

So Yeah. You know, don't don't the the asking for the ref like, customer referrals is, like, kind of a goofy thing because they're, you know, they're they're they're probably giving you a referral from someone who's probably gonna get like a discount on their account if like you do a referral call and they end up like purchasing. Right? So it's just be careful of that.

George.

Yeah. Do your do your due diligence. Is not a just, is that, a women of prayer or whatever? And really where my brain goes, by the way, I don't care if it's me. Really don't care if it's me or anybody else, but this is actually one place where I would say lean into the partner community.

Like Max kind of alluded to like the LinkedIn, you know, asking questions like, yes, ask all the questions. I'll even say this. If you're listening to this, you're probably already a HubSpot user. If you're going through this process and you're actually listening to this and you haven't purchased HubSpot, you might just take the pricing page, all the information from it, the legal page, put it in AI, explain to your AI assistant exactly what your business is, what you do, what you think your strategy, and just see what it starts to spit out of, like what you need, what you don't need. Or get together with a team of humans, by the way.

This might be a great time where you get like sales, marketing and everybody together and be like, here's the things we can do and can't do. What does every single human need from this platform? I don't know. I just wish it was easier, and I'm sorry that it isn't.

At least it can do a lot, though.

Oh, that's amazing.

The truth

is, though.

It's a trade off. You know what I mean? Super complex product that can do everything under the sun is gonna have super complex pricing.

Without Yeah.

It's it's an amazing tool. Like, nobody should ever think that we don't love HubSpot because it's like, we literally just get here every week and talk about it because we like it and wanna help the community. Right?

Without a doubt. Without a doubt.

We just have lots of feelings.

Yes, we do.

Just a couple.

That's okay. Just a couple. At least seven. It's fine. It's fine.

On that note, guys, I hope you have a great week. And until next week, someone wanna say something quippy to take us out, or are we just gonna end this like a bunch of normies? That feels red.

Oh, wow. Really, Chad? W's in the shot. Okay, hub heroes. We've reached the end of another episode.

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