The HubHeroes Podcast

Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed apartments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Are you held captive by the evil menace, lord lack, lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt? Knowledge.

Never fear hub heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the league of extraordinary inbound heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute. Hub Heroes, it's time to unite and activate your powers.

I feel so activated right now, dude. I'm educated. Me too. I'm educated.

Yeah. Hibernated and educated. Together. Oh, hibernated, acticated. Wow.

Dude, you

know how you got into

Uh-oh. Last week?

Is this first of all, is this g rated, p g rated?

Adjudicated is a legal term.

Sure. No. I mean, Max Max said, do you know what I got into? Right?

Yeah.

Oh. So I was asking you, is

that PG or G rated?

It's rated. Oh.

Oh. It's rated a level.

Sure. That's a rated level. Thank

you, Max. It is. Mhmm.

It's an answer.

What'd you get into?

I'm getting into a little bit of a game dev.

Oh. Nice.

I'm learning a platform called Godot.

Wait. Godot. What's it called? Godot.

It's French.

No. Let's see.

G o d o t. Godot. Yeah. Godot.

Yeah. I got some tissues for that.

Yeah. Oh. I haven't learned how to make tissues yet, but I did make a table and boxes.

Oh, nice.

And I put the box on the table.

So is this like kind of like a is it like really high definition or is it more like the eight pixel type game?

It's three d.

Oh, three d.

It's three d. Oh. I I made some low poly textures if that's what you're asking me. Wow. I'd be up in I do be

up in that block bench. You know what I mean? Painting some

pixels. Right there.

16 bits.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not sure how this relates to sandboxes in HubSpot at all, but hey.

Because it's like I'm playing in

a sandbox. Oh,

the sandbox. You made boxes. And

he made a box.

Table. Just Looks like I got my

own virtual sandbox and playing in is what I'm saying.

Wow. You just started real sandboxing?

Sandboxing. No sandboxing this weekend. I have been binge watching Game of Thrones, and I had a really good omelet. So I'm looking to get my fill of sandboxes

Wow.

This morning. So, George, I actually wanna tee you up for today's conversation if we're ready to dig into it. So Yeah. You got a ping from one of our favorite friends of the pod, Chris Carillan, who is asking for this episode. Talk to me about what he was asking for.

We were talking about customer platform updates. And I do believe that we ran across a product update that is the new standard sandbox with improved production metadata and deploy to production supported assets. That is the longest name of an update to But a HubSpot we were going over that and Chris referenced like, Hey, you know, it'd be great to have Chad, he literally named Chad wax nerdy because Chris really loves when Chad wax nerdy on things on the show. We should see if Chad can wax nerdy and Max can wax nerdy on sandboxes. And I think that that would be a useful episode.

And I said, Chris, I think you're right, because one thing that I don't do a lot of in HubSpot over the last eons and some of the grandpa of Inbound and grandpa of HubSpot, sandboxes. Most of my clients are small to medium sized businesses. They have marketing or sales pro or less, which by the way, we'll get to why that's important to why I don't really do sandboxes a lot. And so here we are, we're having an episode, we're talking about sandboxes. If you've ever been curious if you should have

a

sandbox environment, what a sandbox environment is, maybe some of the cool things that Chad or Max have done with sandboxes, well then buckle up because we're playing in the sand today. Now also my beginning joke might make a little more sense or us rambling about boxes might make a little more sense too. We

got there.

We there guys. We got there. No, I personally am excited about this episode because again, I play in very specific parts of HubSpot and I don't often get to learn or hear about these more technical areas. Let's start with that kind of obvious question, right? Like I've heard of sandbox environments in HubSpot.

Sandbox environments are not necessarily a new HubSpot specific concept, But when we're talking about HubSpot sandbox for today's conversation, what specifically are we talking about? The nerd and make it user accessible. What are we talking about?

So, like, imagine if you could take your HubSpot account and duplicate it so you could go play with it and test stuff without breaking the real stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Before Chad goes, I I actually I'll be completely honest with everybody listening to this. I took this conversation and these questions to my clone.

And I asked my clone, what the heck is a HubSpot sandbox? And my clone said, the HubSpot sandbox is like your personal testing laboratory. Max, that's literally what you just said inside It's of a safe, isolated environment where you can experiment, test, and refine changes without messing up your live customer facing data. Think of it as a practice field. One of the things we love to do is we can go down to South Carolina and we can watch the Panthers practice before they actually hit the big so it says, think of it as a practice field where you can try out new plays before taking them to the big game.

I was like, that's a pretty cool overview. That's a cool overview. Chad, where where does your brain

go?

Yeah. Well, just, in general, like to break it down when it comes to development as a whole, like, if you're gonna be developing anything, which let's be real, like, why you know, people may call, oh, hey. We're CRM super admins or whatever. But at the end of the day, what you're doing is you're building, you're developing some sort of process or some sort of new thing for somebody to use a lot of times when you're adding any kind of functionality or feature to HubSpot. Just in general software development, typically, you want to have a few environments, actually.

You wanna have a production environment, you wanna have a test environment, and you wanna have a dev environment for the developers to go play around in. Now I used to work at a company. We used to call our dev environment the trash can. And then when we'd wanna go in and do this little bit of testing on a new build, they'd like, yeah. Get out of my trash can.

You know?

Like That's funny.

I'd like wanna go in early to see new features before they're ready. Like, get out of my trash can. It's not working. You know? And then they like push it up to test once it was ready for somebody to like make sure that it's not really gonna mess up everybody's world.

Right?

Yeah.

Now we don't have that here in HubSpot sandbox. We have two separate isolated environments, but what we do have is the ability to duplicate that live environment into what I would probably call a test environment. Right?

Yeah. And I think also it's important to kinda like explain the difference between this and other ways that you can just kind of like play around with stuff. So like, if you just wanna if like you're someone who just wants to like futz around with HubSpot, you can go create a developer account and create what's called a test account, which is essentially a, a blank slate everything enterprise HubSpot account. The only difference is you can't send emails to people. Right?

So it renders it functionally useless for anyone who wants to, like, do what he can Yeah. Really Yeah. So that's a developer sandbox that or or sorry. A test portal. We don't wanna call those sandboxes.

Sandbox specifically, the big difference is that it's gonna duplicate the way that your portal's already set up. So, like, imagine your layouts, your records, your custom objects, your properties, and then you could even bring in, I think what is it now?

Like,

5,000 contacts.

Thousand of your most recent records or

something like objects or

something like that. Exactly. And you can bring those in. So you can play with, like, real data, right, which is great, but you're not gonna screw up the original stuff. So, like Yeah.

This is really, really good if you wanna test a new workflow that you build so you can see how it interacts with like stuff. Or if you wanna like if you're doing any sort of like big data restructuring exercise, right, this is a great place to do it because you can kinda see how it'll all work without messing up your data structure in your regular portal. Right? So there's a million reasons why you might want to use the sandbox.

I think too,

I'm just I have a jump clarifying question. For

Oh, yeah.

Yep. Yeah. So let me jump in for one second. One of the things too, because Max, you did say development sandbox. And then also what you guys kind of backed up and then alluded to was a standard sandbox.

And like right now, you, and it may be because I have this beta on, or it may have been that way historically. Again, remember, I don't do a lot with sandboxes, but I just want everybody to know the experience now. If you go in and you create a new sandbox, you actually have the ability to pick one or the other. You can pick a standard sandbox, which again, is kind of that extensive copy of production idea for like the robust testing. It's the, you know, the 5,000 contacts, the production objects, the forms, the workflows, the emails, all of that.

Or there is the development sandbox, which is like a minimal copy of production for rapid testing. So this is like when you're gonna just test proof concepts, test proof custom cards, things like that. Go ahead, Max.

But let me clarify something. I was referring to developer test accounts, which are a separate idea. So like, but that's a good distinction too. Right? In in when you make a sand like when you have an enterprise HubSpot account, you can make a sandbox and either have it be a standard or a developer sandbox.

And like a developer sandbox is great if you're trying to, like, test an integration or some APIs or some, like, whatever stuff that you're trying to like

Or you're trying to build a UI. Right?

Yep. Something like that. Yeah. Some sort of extension. Right?

But you have to have an enterprise account in order to build those. A developer test account, any random Joe Schmo can go get a HubSpot developer account and spit up test portals.

Yeah. Yep.

Right? So like bucket that outside of this conversation for anybody listening. Right? Like, I know there's like a lot of people like, Oh, I don't have enterprise. I can't a sandbox.

Nothing's stopping you from going and building like proof of concept stuff in a developer test account.

Yeah. 100%.

Literally nothing. Right? It just won't copy anything from your portal because it's a disconnected idea completely from like, you know, being related to your portal in any way shape

or form.

One thing I wanna double click on before I then shut up and let Liz continue us down the path that we're supposed to go down, because I find this very interesting. As somebody who has been helping train humans in HubSpot for years and know that there are portals that have test dash training for forms and this, that, and the other thing that have to go back and clean up. If you have the enterprise version and can't do a sandbox, one of the things that they have as a bullet point is train new users and explore features and tools. In other words, it could become the trash can of training. You could do a development sandbox, but it be your training sandbox.

That's where you go and just train people in and all the stuff could be littered around it and it not impact your actual HubSpot portal where you're day in, out. And people are like, why is this test dash training workflow in here? Anyway, I'll shut up. Yeah.

So I only had one clarifying question before we moved on. Because George, I you and I have done a lot of work together in HubSpot. Is the sandbox environment we're talking about different from content staging?

Oh, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good question. Yeah. So completely different because content staging is part of like CMS or what is now Content Hub. And so if you want to deploy website pages, landing pages, but be able to work on pages that are already live, make adjustments without anybody seeing them, but be able to have internal teams preview them and then push those pages live to the same URL.

That's what content staging is for. Very much just content driven. By the way, not why we're here, but I wish you could actually do content stage blogs. But again, totally different conversation. HubSpot development team, hopefully you're listening to this or somebody that knows the development team.

Who knows? Maybe your mom's listening to this and they'll pass it on to you. But completely different than like a sandbox environment.

Hi. Yeah. That's like like, content sandbox, basically Yeah.

In a way.

But I love I love It's like content

test, probably. Yeah.

But Yeah.

Or pre prod, maybe, and then maybe you'll call it.

Perfect.

Yeah. But anyway Alright.

Let's throw this out there, guys. What has changed with HubSpot sandbox that we're excited about? What's the four one one?

What's the scoop? Well

Yeah. So they had legacy sandbox before. Right? And that's what they're called now. So if you have an older style sandbox, it's referred to now as a legacy sandbox.

And then they have a new version of the standard sandbox, which essentially does a one time import of your current HubSpot account. But there is a bit of a distinction between the old and the new. Right? The old sandbox, it could continually get refreshed like the legacy one where you could update it with whatever the current structure of your current production portal is now. That feature has not been added to the new standard sandbox, but they added a big one that people have been wanting for a long time.

And this is killer for anybody who is a standard, like is managing one portal. Like if you're a HubSpot super admin of one portal, this is like pretty pretty epic, because you don't have to pay for extra tools to solve some of these problems. And what it allows you to do is basically reverse sync or they call it a deploy to production

Yep.

From your sandbox. And it supports like five things right now. Right now it supports the ability to like basically clone your portal, add forms, lists, marketing emails, objects, and property structures, and then workflows that involve any of those things. I don't know for certain though. I don't believe it'll pull up any workflow.

Like if you put custom code in the workflow, it might not pull it over or if you put you know, so there's a couple things that it still won't do as far as reverse sync and those are the main things that are supported. But when you're talking about like, okay, well, what I'm gonna do is create an integration, like, or add a new feature. Right? Like I was working with a company and we added a contract management system, RadAI. And so we're doing this contract management system and I was able to install the integration, add additional properties as to the whole thing in sandbox and push all of those property changes back up to production.

Right? And all of the the there was no new objects, but if there was a new object, it would do it property groups. The it didn't manipulate the, user interface, unfortunately. So that's also something that it still doesn't do. But and, you know, we can maybe double click on that later when we're going into some more of Luisa's questions.

But it's it's amazing now that at least minimum you have a baseline and this is the the worst this feature is ever gonna be as we often say, right?

Yeah.

And they're only gonna be adding more and they're looking for feedback on, you know, what what's missing, right? Well, what's missing is for me, you know, user interface, Right? Update the user interface along with it because often you wanna build a good user experience, not just, oh, I don't know. Put the bits and bobs in the back end and then they'll all figure it out in production. You're gonna have to redo whatever you did over in sandbox and production.

Right?

Yeah. And also like a little bit of historical context here too. Like sandboxes have been around for a while, but they've never had the ability to push stuff back into the main production portal. Right?

Yeah. And so that's what a lot of big enterprise CRMs often have. Like, you know, if you get Dynamics three sixty five, I mean, you have like I think you have because it's made by Microsoft. Right? So they have like three layers.

Like, you can do the whole dev test prod thing that I described basically in Dynamics, but also Dynamics is a giant beast of a system that's like basically, you have to be a developer to use it.

Yeah. Now something important to note, as of the day we're recording, this is August 18 or no, not on eighteenth, eleventh.

The eleventh, man. Don't do that to us. Come on.

I don't know why I did that. It's August 11. The way the deployed so the deployed production stuff is in beta. Right? Yeah.

And it's interesting because the limitations around it are that you can only deploy back net new stuff you've created, it doesn't let you edit existing assets, which is a little bit goofy, but again, worse it's ever gonna be right now. Yeah. Right? The logical first step to any of this is recreating that new stuff. Right?

Editing stuff is worlds more complicated. Right? Yeah. So keep that in mind, depending on when you're listening to this episode is that like the the deploy to production feature is very new. Yeah.

Right? And it's Mhmm. Half baked at the moment. But

Well, I think I think this is where I jump in and say, listen, we're talking about a public beta. It it is a beta version. So when Chad and Max say it's half baked or it's the worst it'll ever be, it's because it's a beta that once it goes live, I'm sure a lot of the things that we're talking about, you know, maybe the product team will actually like tune in and check out this episode. But a lot of the things that we're talking about might actually just be in the actual new sandboxes once they deploy the live version. Because smart humans like Chad Maxx and others out there, maybe even listening to this podcast, are leveraging it and using it.

Second thing I want to is, throw it is right now for anybody who signs up for the beta, but then also it's enterprise customer platform, content enterprise, marketing enterprise, ops enterprise, sales enterprise, service enterprise. If you have any of those enterprises, you can turn on the sandbox feature that we're talking about. Here's a question that I'm going to ask, and again, kind of going off the rails for a second, but when you guys talk about this Deploy Wizard, if it got smarter, because it might not be now, but let me ask you a question because my brain went there. Are we entering a world where if you have an enterprise set up in HubSpot and you've got a sandbox where marketing and people should actually maybe even be working. Like for instance, if I was going to create an email, do I create the email in the sandbox and then deploy it to the real one and then send it from there?

Or is that overkill? You're talking more like nerdy stuff.

Yeah. Complete overkill. I mean, because, like, that's the thing. You shouldn't be afraid to build stuff in your main portal. It's more so, I would say, untested fundamental structural changes to the way your portal operates.

You should test drive it in the in the in the sandbox first. Right? You don't wanna be spinning up a sandbox to go build an email just to push it into the Gotcha. Into the the main portal. Right?

Like, you could still draft. Like, that doesn't to me

Send preview send and all

that. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You have all the functions with that. If you were like, I mean, if you really needed to do something like, you know, one of the things they push back is lists. Right?

And so if you had like property structure changes that you need to make to make your data clean, it may be worth attempting to build all of the lists that would like you segment all of your customers after all of those net new properties were changed or something along those lines so that you could really understand your segmentation. And unfortunately reports don't push back, but that would be a nice thing too is like, you know, now you can make your reports and it all works and your lists validate everything, then you can push that all back up to production. Now at least you can push the lists and the, you know, stuff like that, the lists and the property changes. I'm thinking at some point, there may be a world where they need, like it's almost like a code merge editor or, like, where when you're viewing changes in code and there's, like, the green and the red that shows you, like, oh, these lines were added. These lines were removed in this place.

You know, it's it's not quite that nerdy, but, like, they will probably need something like that when they allow edits for conflicts pushing back up, like, hey, these properties already exist. Do you want you know, obviously, you change this, but between the last time we saw it and now this was edited and this was edited, do you want the copy that's in production or that's in sandbox, right? They're gonna need like some level of conflict changes where it scans and scans both sides, runs through a checklist of however many things that it wants to confirm. And, you you know, I'm sure they'll let you just say choose all or whatever if you wanted, but that could be dangerous. But, you know, again, I think there's a world where that's gonna need to happen to allow non net new and an edit of existing assets.

So So let me ask one more question because my brain is going all kinds of like sideways, left, up, down over here. And then Liz, I promise I'll shut up and you can continue to herd cats the rest of the way through the show that we need to. Just getting Hey, started

just giving space for nerds to be nerds. Nerd away.

I'm just getting started with HubSpot. I fire up a sandbox. Do I go in and actually go to data management and go to data model? And do I build my data model in the sandbox? And then once I'm happy with it in the sandbox, deploy it to them.

Again, I'm trying to figure out these scenarios where is that old?

Like if you're just, yeah, if you're brand new HubSpot, empty HubSpot.

Yeah. It's building prod.

Yeah, building prod because it's you're not affecting anybody and you don't have your whole list of contacts or, you know, you haven't uploaded all of your data in there. The only time I might suggest that is if you're planning on doing like a mega mega upload or something like that. Maybe what I might do is build what I think is the right data structure in sandbox, push that data structure up to prod, do a mega import inside of my sandbox and make sure everything checks out. Otherwise, then I have the opportunity to nuke the sandbox and pull that copy back from prod Yeah. Into sandbox.

Yeah. But, again, remember that you only have those five assets to work with right now.

Yeah. Yeah. Also, like, I don't think anyone should, you know, overthink this. Like Yeah. You can test stuff in prod.

Like, it's not a not an issue. You know what I mean? It's just like, it depends on the size of its impact. You know what I mean? And like how detrimental it could be if it if it goes bad.

Yeah. Right? Like, don't be afraid to like experiment in production. Like, there are plenty of ways to, like when you're building a workflow, there's plenty of ways to isolate the workflow so it doesn't touch your other data. Like when you're, you know, so it's one of those things where it's like, unless it's a really, really big project, it probably doesn't need a sandbox.

Yeah.

Right? So, because again, it's like a process to spin it up, get all the stuff imported, like maybe delete it. Well, you know what I mean? It's a thing, right? It's not

a Yeah. Another thing too is like when you do a sandbox, all the workflows that you have are turned off as after the sandbox is created. So, like, whatever you built in prod, you basically have to go I I think it also I don't if the new sandbox has import your user interface, but the old one definitely didn't. Right?

The record the record The

record structure.

Yeah. Oh, jeez. That would make me not even use it.

That's crazy. The old one definitely didn't. I haven't checked the new one. Actually, I don't even remember because it's been like a little bit since I created my I I went in and did a whole bunch of stuff in there and pushed it up for an integration that I was building. So but it was missing some stuff still, unfortunately.

So I used another tool to import my record structure and a couple other things. Yeah. Love it. And yeah. So that I think that that's one of those things that's a little tricky, right, is making that decision.

But what I what I what you asked earlier, George, like, do I build it in Sandbox? Actually, gonna change my answer to, like, app brand new portal, probably never in Sandbox. And the reason is because of the limited assets. Now in the future, if it is like a full, you know, forward reverse kind of a thing, you know, then you could do either way. It depends on what you really prefer.

Right? Just extra work, though. You know what I mean? Like, if

if there's

nothing going on in production, then

Yeah. If there's nothing in production, but I think the thing about it is, like, when it comes to, like, an actual development life cycle and actually building things, like, from the perspective of, like, if you were doing it from, a development perspective, you'd always start in dev no matter what. You always start in dev. If you're developing something, you always start in dev. Right?

True. I just think yeah. I just think, you know, like, for for us to get to that place, like, it's obviously this the sandbox has a long way to go in terms of what it can push to production.

Exactly. Yeah.

Rebuilding shit manually, you know.

Yeah. If we're at a place where you're not having to rebuild anything manually, and you have the ability to do, like, reverts almost like, you know, you're you're working your git repo. Right? Like, oh, I'm gonna go back to this check-in. And then sandbox is back to whatever I built five check ins ago, and then I can push that all back up, you know, or whatever.

Right? Like, those sort of things, I think, are theoretically possible. But it it is gonna increase the complexity as well to allow that level of functionality. Right? Right now, it is very turnkey.

It's like if these things work for you, you click a button and she works. Right?

Chad, you think they'll ever bring it down to, pro?

I could see it. I mean, a lot of things that you know, like, for example, custom datasets were enterprise. Now you get a cut down version. Right? But they're Pro now.

You can make custom datasets with custom calculated properties in Pro. You have less properties you can make, but, like, in a pinch, it will allow you to make a report that you absolutely never could have made in HubSpot before.

Yeah. So let me ask you

guys this.

Totally possible.

We've talked a lot about really interesting updates here, but is there anything that's still missing for us? Anything we still want to see? Chad, I see that smile.

Yeah. Always. I mean, definitely, like version control will be one thing for sure. So that's huge. We were just talking about that.

And then additional assets, like, you're gonna ultimately like, and Max, I mean, you you mentioned the edit. Right? It's only net new properties. So if you need to edit the description of a property, for example, you're going in and doing a mega overhaul, and you just are taking your time in sandbox and maybe deleting properties that don't need to exist anymore, adding descriptions to properties that somebody just jumped up and didn't put names in, but you can't push those changes right now up to production. Right?

So I think that'd be really killer. You know? So both delete and edit would be amazing to have even just on the property schema level.

Yeah. And I think also just like record layout stuff is a really big I mean, layout stuff is one of the biggest reasons. Like I feel like sandboxes would be useful, right? Just because you have to do It's a lot of work to go in and completely like restructure like your UI and your your record layouts and all that kind of stuff. And, like, it's also something that can, like, stop people dead in their tracks from working because they, like, can't find where a piece of data went or they don't know how to navigate the tabs on a certain record or where to find the data they need, stuff like that.

Right? So I think, like, moving to support that as fast as possible is probably a really important thing. So that and also, like, I wonder if there's like anything creative they can do around how to handle like connected integrations. You know what I mean? Like when you do a developer portal, like you don't have any of your integrations still hooked up.

And not a developer portal, a sandbox. Right? Yeah. So like you gotta go like reinstall apps, reconnect stuff. Like sometimes that's not so easy with like, you know, like, you know, for when we have customers that wanna do, you know, an event happily sandbox, we effectively have to give them like another license for free to go do that.

Right? Which is, like, kinda goofy. You know? And so I I and I'm not sure, like, what the answer is to that because, like, the developers and how their apps works is always gonna be, like, a variable there. Right?

Maybe it's

you just find They have to give a framework on the app partner side for Sandbox. They have to actually have a supported, you know, dev s or sorry, prod test branch, where all your URLs change and all of your database changes, because you can't just connect up somebody's prod data. So that also means that whatever that partner is has to have a level of sandbox functionality for their tool in the first place.

Interesting. It's almost like my brain goes to my simple mind goes to, like, in the future, if it was just almost a mirrored version. Like and it automatically kept up to date, but then you could, like, make changes and push it over and then, like Mhmm. Yeah. Interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean yeah. I mean, I I think, ultimately, that's that's where they're moving. Right?

Mhmm. But I'm sure there's, you know, drawbacks with doing, a complete mirror also. You know? Like, there's I think sometimes there's there's a benefit to having it be a snapshot just in that it's not gonna start changing while other people are making changes in production. You know what I mean?

And screwing up what you're doing in sandbox, Right?

Yeah.

But yeah.

Yeah. So I did double check the new version of the sandbox. It does not pull in the UI structure. So it still has the default HubSpot about this deal card. I can think the reason is because the if you have integrated apps and they're not there or something, I mean, maybe they just omit those.

But if those possibly could cause some sort of issue, or if you've installed, like a UI extension, so you made a custom HubSpot UI extension and it's in prod, but it's not connected to your sandbox, obviously, because that doesn't have, like, splitting. I could expect that the hard library that we now use for the record editors. Right? You know, you have, like, the side panel that comes up when you're editing the structure. Those hard editors, would have properties in them that wouldn't be able to exist in the sandbox theoretically or stuff that could theoretically not exist.

So right now, they're just completely omitting it rather than like parsing out the stuff that's missing or putting placeholders in, you know, or something that will allow them to still exist, you know, or some way that it says this is in production, but it's can't be in sandbox. So you can still have everything. Because here's the thing is like when you build something in sandbox and you add a record editor like that or a property card or some sort of structure, for the user interface of sandbox, then you have to manually recreate it in production. You also have the possible missing out of making it exactly the same or some sort of conditional logic that you forgot to add. You know?

So I think a big piece would be adding that data in. And then the last thing while we were we were talking about the developer sandbox in the enterprise accounts, one thing I wanted to point out that's really, really, really, really helpful for your developers outside of just them spooling up a free dev account is the fact that it has your HubSpot structure. So if they're building a HubSpot user interface extension, then they already are gonna see all of like your HubSpot portal properties and associations and association type IDs if you have custom objects. And often, like, you wanna interact with a custom object when you end up dealing with the user interface extension. So that's, like, one reason that it's extremely helpful for your developer to work out of your enterprise developer sandbox rather than just the freebie developer sandbox.

Also, they'll be constrained to the limits of whatever your subscription is. So if they wanna use some sort of fancy technique, but it's a hub you don't pay for for some reason, they'll have to live within within that world as well. So a few few cup couple extra things as we round the corner here.

Yeah. Well, let's round the corner and land this plane, shall we? George, what is the between one and twenty three things you want our listeners to take away from today's episode. Just one?

No. Just one thing. One thing. Was a word. Think it was Max used this word.

I'm almost positive. Maybe it was used by multiple people, but the word is impact. So my one takeaway is when you're thinking about Sandbox and if you should use a Sandbox or not use a Sandbox or do something in Sandbox if you're using Sandbox, is impact. And I would suggest that maybe you come up with a small, medium, or large gauge around impact to the team. Well, actually, let's just say impact to the people, impact platform, or impact to the process.

Right? So think about those three layers, the word impact and small, medium, or large to know where you should be building or doing the thing that you're doing moving forward. That's it. One thing. Okay, hub heroes.

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