The HubHeroes Podcast

Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed apartments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Are you held captive by the evil menace, lord lack, lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt? Knowledge.

Never fear hub heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the league of extraordinary inbound heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute. Of heroes, it's time to unite and activate your powers.

I am.

That was beautiful. No. That was beautiful. That was artwork.

It keeps me up every night, to be honest. Yeah.

Lord Black haunts me. Yeah. So we're back together again.

Yeah.

I heard inbound was a freaking blast.

It was crazy.

West Coast style.

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. San Francisco. I I'm I may go back.

I may never go back. I don't know. I'm the jury's still out, but but I will try a Waymo car again without a doubt. Waymo. Waymo.

Yeah.

The Waymo. Those are kind

of in

the Seattle side point I hear.

Yeah. Self driving car. Yeah. Without a doubt.

I'm not sure how I feel about that.

You know what isn't self driving? Loop marketing. That isn't self driving.

George, that was mine. That was my

thing. I'm sorry.

That was my

thing. My bad.

It's okay. No, I was going back through and listening to all of the different things that you talked about, looking through all the different product announcements.

Yeah.

And yeah, loop marketing I want to have what is likely the beginning of a number of conversations about this topic because I got to be perfectly honest guys, I have questions. Now for people at home who maybe missed the announcement or just need a little refresher, loop marketing is this new fancy AI powered framework which is the next revolution quote beyond the funnel, okay. It connects to like a thousand different things, right? It's like Breeze AI agents, Data Hub, Marketing Studio for content creation, Smart CRM, AICPQ, ABCDEFG, HIJK, LMNOP. My

brain hurt.

Like AI.

Exactly. AI. I was telling this earlier, George. It was one of those things where I always get excited when HubSpot pushes the envelope, gets us to think about things in bigger and different ways. Yeah.

And this one, after I got through reading about all of it, am like, I am excited. I am scared. I, there's so much happening. There are so many acronyms. There's so much AI flying around.

And I have a lot of more fundamental questions.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's what I want to talk about.

I think everybody has fundamental questions. I think it's lightly defined, maybe heavily defined if you go to loopmarketing.com, which takes you to a HubSpot page. But even that says like more resources coming soon, like sign up for more marketing resources. Listen, as we prepped for the show, I went and tried to watch and listen to some of episodes and videos that people were creating. It just left me with more questions.

And to be honest with you, it's like, I feel like people are confused. I've heard everything from inbound is dead to loop marketing is stupid to like, what happened to the flywheel? Hashtag loop, Like, go use there's so much out there. And by the way, this is not bad. Loop marketing is not bad, but, but there's fundamental definitions that have to occur for people to embrace this where and how it should be embraced.

I agree. Like, the whole the concept of we're moving beyond the funnel. I'm like, didn't we do that in 2018 with a flywheel? Like, wait a minute. Hold on a second.

What's going on? So that's what we're

getting. That's just the flywheel is just a three d funnel.

I mean, pretty dang much. So, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Like, I think that's where we need to start is what is loop marketing, right? Like Yeah.

That's I wanna go. So go ahead. Down for

me. Yeah. Well

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Chad, do you wanna go first? Do you want me to go first?

You know, you give it a whirl. I mean, like, the content thing is all you guys. Like, you're you know, you've been in the marketing thing. The first problem.

There's the first problem. Oh my god. Okay. Marketing is not a content thing.

Right, Content

is part of a marketing thing. Okay, as we'll say, as we'll talk about. Love that you started there. So first of all, let me just What is Loop Marketing? Loop Marketing is not a replacement for inbound.

Loop marketing is not a replacement for your funnel. Loop marketing is not a replacement for the flywheel. Let me explain, loop marketing is a system for the things that you in your organization do internally with a set of tools and an AI partner assistant, whatever you call it, Breeze, if you're using HubSpot. We'll talk about maybe where that falls apart if you're not a HubSpot user, by the way. But it's an internal system.

It's a way that we use a software and we use mindsets and mentalities to do the things that we're doing. If you even think about the words express, we express ourselves, We tailor our information and content. We amplify our message. We evolve based on our metrics. So what I want everybody to realize is inbound and the funnel and the flywheel has always been about journey and them.

This is about process and us. And we just have to come out and say that. So that's where I'm going to start is, it's not a replacement. These four things, there is a bunch that we could be talking about in each one of these four things as far as Express, Tailor, Amplify, Evolve, but we got to put it in its place. It's not as big as everybody wants to make it, but it's huge in the place where it belongs.

Yeah. When I, earlier, I was kinda doing a little bit of prep for this episode, and one of the places that I went as as it be like it do, I saw HubSpot's YouTube channel and they had a YouTube short on HubSpot marketing. Yeah. And the YouTube short immediately said the flywheel is dead. Yeah.

However, after that, it said, well, just kidding. This is summarized. Not actually dead, but it's it's being powered differently is what it said. Right? It's like the so they were kinda, like, joking, obviously, at the beginning.

Like, oh, the flywheel's dead. You need to be using loop marketing. Well, actually, at the end, just kidding. It's just a differently powered flywheel, which jives with it what it sounds like you're saying, George.

Which, by the way, as soon as you say it's a different type of thing, like so, like, have you ever heard the human where they're like, oh, man. I got a car just like that, but it's purple. Bro. It's not just like it then. It's not mine is red.

You can't have a loop and it be a flywheel. Like, it's a loop. Mhmm. It is fundamentally different. Let me, let let me dive a little bit more into kind of this real quick, just so we get a, we get a, like a defined piece of, of what we're talking about.

Then you can circle, we'll circle back around because you did ask me like, what is what is the loop marketing and like these, these stages? And so let's just, let's just back up for a second.

Like, it's like, you were reading my mind.

That's what

I was going to circle the wagons Right.

Express. So express, which by the way, I can't say that without thinking of the song. Express yourself. Like, you know, do you guys know that song? Anyway, so express is where you define, like, who you are, your tastes, your tone, your point of view.

Is historically what we've talked about when working with AI is like, this is all the context. This is like our brand, our voice, our style guide. This is like that kind of thing.

So you remember all those episodes we did on AI data sources? I mean, like, this is what that evolved into legit.

Right. Right. It feels like such a fancy pants name for, like, voice tone style, who you are, what I get it.

But but see, here's the thing is it even goes further than that. We'll break down, when we talk about Express, I broke down fundamentally in an organization different things that we could be talking about or thinking about. Holistically, it's like, again, your taste, your tone, your point of view, and you make sure that AI and humans alike know what makes your brand unique. So, the idea without Express, without this kind of foundational piece, you don't have clarity. Any of the other three things, as you've heard in some of the videos or trainings or if you're at Inbound, everything else kind of falls flat.

Okay. So you've got to know Hey, ladies and gentlemen. In life, to win, you've gotta know who you are and what you like and how you Wow. Beliefs, mindsets, core values. Oh, how do you express yourself?

Human and organist okay. So the next one is Taylor. Once you know who you are, oh, self awareness is a BI. Okay, so once you know who you are, and only then can you shape your message so it lands with the people that you're trying to reach. Okay, let's reverse engineer that personas, ideal client profiles, the different industries that you serve.

Now you can actually tailor it and personalize it at scale. So you can use data and AI to make those touches that we've done historically more personal and relevant. That folks that feel seen, they feel heard, they feel understood, instead of these generic blasts. In my inbound talk, I said something along the lines of when's the last time you sent a handwritten note? Now, don't mean an actual handwritten note, but when's the last time your message felt like it was a handwritten note, like a card from your grandma, right?

And so this is the thing, like Taylor, when you think about this, it is personalization at scale. What does XYZ service look for accountants? What does XYZ service look like for churches? What does XYZ service look for? Boom.

Okay, so here's where my brain goes. This also comes down to your data modeling, but unfortunately, there are so many organizations when we think about this tailored that they're still in first name, last name, job title, company name. Okay. You got to start to like, I'm sitting here, I'm walking this morning. I did like an hour walk thinking about this subject to bring to the world.

And I'm like, I want to go in my CRM and I want to ask completely different questions. I want to ask questions like, do you like dad jokes or not? Yes or no? What's your favorite color? What's your favorite food?

What's your like, do you believe in this or that? Is what's, what's your like, you know, broad stuff? Like, what's your favorite sport? Well, why do I want to ask questions like that? Because now I can use AI and data to compile this different type of segments that could be like these purple colored emails that talk about the Philadelphia Eagles that also embrace these dad jokes that are actually teaching marketing.

Now that is fricking tailored. That's personalization at scale, but you got questions to be able to personalize that to the humans. Yeah. That okay. Right?

So like, you can't you can't we live in a world now where if you're blasting out generic noise and nonsense, you will lose.

Or even AI powered standard lookup non, you know, because like, we're gonna turn into, hey, you know, thanks for reaching out. You have, oh, you know, a company of your size, blah blah blah, because like AI can look that up without any extra smart questions that you've asked. But I think your second smart question philosophy really will always apply how you execute it, what you can do with those second smart questions to power your AI, to stand out above everybody else's AI noise. Yeah.

Yes. And by the way, if you're listening to this and you're like, what is Chad talking about? Second smart questions, call me. Send up smoke signals. Ship me to your office.

I don't whatever we gotta do, we can talk about what this looks like.

It's it's worth knowing and learning. I mean, like, it's gonna change the way that you think about just form submissions even, let let alone, you know. Yeah. Anyway, just knowing the people who are coming to you, identifying them, helping them, you know, being a resource to those people who to those, you know, humans, George.

Yes. Yes.

As they come in. Right? It's very important to to keep them in mind. And and when you're doing it, you know, for you as a business, obviously, but for them to make their lives better because you have something to offer that you can help people with, it's still the same thing. We're still doing the same thing.

We're just doing it with a different playbook.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Nothing new under the sun.

Nothing's really changed. Now we're putting it in four different buckets. I'm I'm trying to paint that picture, like, through this episode and future episodes. But, Chad, thank you, because you know I do love humans. Yes, I do love me some humans.

Okay. So think about this tailor thing, as I kind of end that piece up. Because again, like Chad said, I want to ask different questions. I want to ask second, smart questions because in the tailoring, what I'm doing is, am I focused as a marketer on conversion rate? Sure, maybe, but I like to call it conversation rate.

And if I can inject in conversation rate a higher level of conversations and more conversations, then we're winning. Okay? We're winning. So, the next phase that HubSpot talks about is Amplify. And this is where marketers have lived, either in a very yuck, terrible, noise, nonsense way, or a very happy, helpful, humble human way, right?

This is where you take that tailored message that you've created, because you know who you are, you know how you want to show up, you know who they are, you know their likes and needs, and you spread this message. And here's the thing, used to just be kind of through old channels, like, I'm going to do SEO, and I might do a little email, Maybe I'm going to do SEO and a little bit of ads. We live in a world now, and I literally wrote an article, I'll have to put it in the show notes, where it's like, there's five major areas that we should be paying attention to, but you you've got to think about this holistic. Right? This holistic publishing, amplifying, broadcasting manner.

Like, it's it's gotta be across communities. It's like, listen, everybody for years ago was like, well, everything should be on your website. Hey, website traffic is down like 60%. Should it be now? Maybe.

Should it live there? Yes. But should there be branches into other communities? Should you be doing things with other creators? Should you make sure that you're following an AI search?

Where are all the places that your buyers hang out? We had this cute thing when the inbound methodology came out that we're like, You got to find their digital water cooler. Yo, that shit is important as all get out right now. Like it's, you don't need, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I got passionate.

Once again, it was not me.

It was not you. Max Just is not

like to point out.

Yeah. So, so like, you know what I mean? You gotta know where they hang out and you gotta be the guy, the gal, the human, the human brand that is trusted in those spaces. Okay. So when you think of Amplify, I want you to think about, well, we're amplifying because we already have self awareness.

We're amplifying because we are empathetic and understand the humans we're serving. Now let's put the good juju out into the world. So now you've amplified it, now we got to talk about Evolve. I think this is where, again, some of the magic can happen because, and why they call it Loop Marketing, is because this is where they're trying to say it doesn't stop. This is where the loop comes in.

Because now what you're doing is you're going to go ahead and by the way, we've done this for years. Ladies and gentlemen, the only thing of all this is test and measure. You test what you put out to the world and you measure. There's a raised hand in this platform. Oh my God.

Okay, hang on, hang on. So you test what you do.

Liz's brain is breaking by the way. Measure

and you adjust, right? Because you want to get smarter with every cycle of the thing that you're doing. I'm purposely saying cycle of everything you're doing because I don't want to drill this down to content. This Evolve is bigger than content. It's Evolve Data Cleanliness, Evolve any marketing process that you have.

It's like these learnings, they need to compound and get you better results over time because, well, okay, Liz, you raised your hand.

Yes. Hi. So, I've been listening very patiently. I have been listening to every step of the way that you have mapped out and I am going to ask a question from a genuine place of curiosity. I'm gonna ask the question and then I'm gonna explain why I have the question.

And then I'm going to listen.

Sure.

Did they solve a real problem or an imagined one with Loop Marketing? Because here's where I'm getting a little stuck. Everything that you've laid out feels like we are relabeling things that already had stages, that already had steps. Like typically speaking, when HubSpot has rolled out something wholly new like this, even if I chafed, Like, I had a problem with the flywheel, but I got it. They were introducing a new way

Yeah.

Of thinking about things. Yeah. And this is the first time where it's like, express, tailor, amplify, evolve. These terms don't feel grounded. It feels like we're making labels around a product thing to bring the product together

Yeah.

As opposed to introducing a new strategy, but they're positioning it from a marketing perspective

Well, think about as a new strategy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, think about question is, problem or imagined one?

Yeah.

What did we actually solve with the marketing here?

So, I'm going say two, two things to this, and I love that that's where your brain went. One, I had somebody say this to me the other day. They have had people asking what Loop Marketing is. And this person literally says, have you been watching George B Thomas for the last ten years? That's Loop Marketing.

First of all, I take the compliment. Thank you very much. However, the second thing that I'm going to say is that not everybody has been in the ecosystem or the ether of what we have been doing. And Liz, not everybody thinks like the way we think when it comes to the things that we have been doing from a happy, helpful, humble human perspective. Liz, you do.

Chad, you do. I know Max does. I know Hapley does. I know we do at Psychic Strategies. But HubSpot has a massive amount of data, and they realize not everybody is playing that game.

Not everybody can translate the inbound marketing methodology and the flywheel into what we've been doing along the way. And I say this very humbly. So, is it a problem for us? No. Is it a problem out in the world?

Obviously. Right? So, I don't think they made it up, but I think there's a subsection of humans that are confused or haven't been doing it and need to go into this new way because if you were just using the old playbook, it's not working anymore. Guess what? We're Go still in business because ahead, Chad.

Go ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say some people would distill attract, engage to light to be like, oh, three simple steps. I'm going to create a landing page, make an ad, send out an email, you know, and there was what it was before that, you know, had worked in mass, and they just did enough of it. But literally, number one thing that it says on the Loop Marketing homepage is marketing funnels aren't flowing and old tactics aren't working.

Yeah.

Right? Your playbook needs some love. And it's like, you know, when you're starting to talk about that, I mean, I guess my brain just goes to a lot of people aren't natively visionary. They don't natively see into how things work. Right.

I mean, some people are great at it. Some people are okay at it, but like it's not a normal skill to like hear one thing and then in your brain ideate and come up with how something would function out of that. Right? And how you would execute on it. So I think is would you say that this is an attempt of HubSpot to operationalize people.

I mean, to use their tool, operationalize them to do better.

So two things based on where you just led my brain, Chad. One, and going back to Liz's question and combining your two questions. One, if you think about what I said at the very beginning of this, of external process funnels and flywheels around the humans, internal system and process loop marketing for marketers to do the things that they need to do in a way that they need to do them. Boom. So that's, I think it's, yes, they're trying to,

well, whatever. Operationalize.

Thanks. People into that. Now, here's here's the other thing where my brain goes on this is but that's only half the story. Right? That's only half the thing that people should be paying attention to.

I literally wrote another article about loop marketing and superhuman framework and how they combine. I'll put that in the show notes as well. You can dig into that if you want to in the future. But here's the thing. We have to understand that this year of all years, 2025, it definitely was, Liz, back to kind of your question, and again, bridging Chad's question in there too, is historically it was this methodology that drove a culture to show up to do business in a certain way.

This year's Loop Marketing, by the way, let me back up before I even go to this year. Also, it was inbound methodology marketing, inbound methodology sales, inbound methodology service. Now, I want you to think about that. This year, loop marketing, specificity, one just segment. Now, is next year going to be sales and the year after that going to be service?

I don't know, but I need everybody to realize that we were just talking about marketing. What the heck happens to Express and, you know, Amplify and all of this in sales and service, and nobody's even talking about how this should be maybe opera opera. Say it again, Chad.

Operational.

Operational. I'm having a hard time with that word. It it is

Maybe if you say it with the human voice That it'll it'll sound better. No.

No. It won't. Okay. So so here's the thing. That word is kicking my butt today.

Anyway, so nobody's talking about that. Right? Like, this needs to be extrapolated through the, like, the different anyway. Anyway. Extrapolated.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it does. So so here's here's the thing. Like, this year, it was a tool or felt like a tool that we need to figure out how to, you know, take it and make it so people could operate in it in a way with all the cool tools that we had and tools that are coming to be able to do things faster, better at scale, to get over some of the hurdles that HubSpot had felt.

They knew a large portion of their organizations that were using their tool felt. Because what happens if all of sudden you aren't seeing success with the tools that you're supposed to get success with, cancel your tool. What does HubSpot care about? People not canceling their tools. We need to get them So to if HubSpot sees some things that are working, we've got to build a framework, a system, or like they call it a playbook to help people keep things working in this, what I'll call sort of a chaotic time and period, at least when it comes to marketing.

Now, for most, I go back and I'm going to humbly say this, one, Chad, you used the word visionary. I don't feel like I'm a visionary. I just feel like I'm a guy who has these ways that he's going to do things, and I stuck to those things, and long term and it's human and it's core values. And so like, I can tell you that this loop marketing will work if you apply it in the way that needs to be applied. Because listen, I didn't care and don't care that search traffic is down 60%.

Why do you say that George? Because 60 to 70% of my business is referrals. Well, why is that George? Because I've been doing human based loop marketing for the last ten years. Now that's not visionary, that maybe I'm lucky.

I hate the word lucky, but maybe there's like anyway,

I'll show jump in here. I gotta jump in here. I already put this in the chat. Chad saw it. I'm having a lot of feelings about this, guys.

And this may be a situation, and it's part of the reason why I am going to say before I tee it up for the last question to you, George, it's why I'm glad we're having a more extended conversation about this.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because I will admit, I can sometimes be a who moved my cheese kind of girly. Like, I get that, but I am also a big advocate for change. I'm a big advocate for moving things forward. Yep. There is something about this change that makes me feel like HubSpot was solving a HubSpot problem and not solving a customer problem, which is kinda antithetical to the way they've always presented themselves.

Mhmm. And that like, because I'm hearing you describe it, like, again, they're not introducing anything new. Now to be fair, it may be something where I sit with this, and maybe we needed new language, new architecture Mhmm. In order to bring all of these pieces together because to do inbound, to do marketing, to do holistic marketing and sales together where they're aligned, it is a much more complex piece than it was in 2015.

Without a doubt.

I'm not gonna lie about that. But I even remember, like, when I would hear terms like attract attract, engage, convert, delight. Yeah. All of the things that we used to use and even when the funnel was introduced, like, I got it and this is the first time like I get it but it doesn't feel like we're moving anything forward. It feels like we're solving a problem for software and attrition.

Well, that's a question too. Do you think that we're solving for a future problem that people are gonna be in if they don't get it? And that I think might be a little bit more because like, if you know, remember your journey with AI, Liz. Right? You've talked about it on the podcast before.

Like, you're welcome,

Liz. You're welcome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, like, I don't know how I feel about these words and the things. Yeah. You know? And, like, if people don't get on board with the AI functions in their lives to allow them to do more I mean, like, you know, GDP is growing because the amount of unit work that a single human can do with an AI assistant is growing exponentially. Right?

Like, you can get so much more done. And, like, the people who are not doing that, you know, to improve what they're doing are are going to fall woefully behind.

See, I think No, I I wanna completely

agree with that.

Hold on. Hold on, One second. One second. And then just hold on to your, because I'll lose mine. You are not good.

I literally am 54. I'll lose my train of thought. Like just hold on, hold on to your thought. Because mine will be like, I don't remember what I was thinking. What am I eating for dinner?

I don't know. Okay. What was I thinking? Oh yeah. Chad, here's, here's the deal.

Yes, faster, but I want to double triple 10 x what you said in the middle of Faster, better.

Yep.

Better.

Faster, better.

Creating Mhmm. Okay? Because that's the thing. Like, when you think about taste, tone, point of view, when you think of personas and ideal client profiles, again, things that we've talked about for years, now you can do it faster, better. Or the way that I'd like to say is you can do it better, faster.

Here's the thing. I said something the other day on another podcast, I think it I think it needs to be said when we're thinking about AI, we're thinking about HubSpot, we're thinking about marketing, we're thinking about humans, is that right now we live in a world where intelligence is not the issue. We have lived in a world where intelligence was the issue. Intelligence no longer is the issue. We have all the intelligence that we ever want or ever need.

We just got to go and get it. The problem that we're having right now is the wisdom in to do what with that intelligence. When? Can we blast out a bunch of crap? Can we totally destroy a data model?

Can we burn humans out? Absolutely. Mhmm. But that's not better.

Yeah. That's just do and when to

do it. Yeah. Go ahead, Liz. Sorry.

I mean Yeah. Go ahead, Liz. Sorry.

Yeah. But oh, excuse me. No, cut this out. Sorry. I have so many feels I'm coughing.

We got it. We got it all like now anyway.

I'm to talk amongst yourselves. But here's the thing. I don't necessarily disagree with anything that you're saying.

Yeah, right.

My problem and again, maybe I just need to sit with this a little more is was a confusing rebrand slash not rebrand of the inbound marketing methodology. The answer to everything that we're talking about That's where I'm struggling a little bit. Nothing we're talking about is really new and it feels like instead of like when I think about what we loved about the inbound methodology when it first came on, even when it was iterated, even when it turned into the flywheel, even when it turned into all of these other things. It was all about solving for the customer journey. It was focused on how we show up and serve as humans and this feels very uniquely like, well, we now have a big unwieldy piece of software and we need to make it easier for people to use, which I don't disagree with.

That can be something very, hold on George. That can be something very valid. That can be something that definitely needs to be done because I don't disagree with anything that you just said.

Yeah.

But I think to your point earlier George, part of the reason we're even having this discussion is this is now what the second or third year in a row after inbound we say, wow, this could be really great, but the messaging strategy is way out of whack.

Yeah. So, me, let me just say a couple things. One, marketers are humans. Two, we're not Yeah. Solving the same problem.

We're solving a different problem. We're solving the problem of the marketers and what to do with a platform and a process. And by the way, the funnel was never really new. It was a package people understood. The flywheel was never really new, it was a package people understood.

Those two things and the inbound methodology wasn't anything new, but it was a structure that could be repeatable. Loop marketing is HubSpot's 2025 version of creating a specificity around marketing to a structure that they can repeat inside of a platform so they can see success. It's a it's a different problem. And the problem that we're facing is is people are calling to the same problem. It's not a journey problem.

It's an implementation problem.

Yeah.

Okay.

When what I'll say too is, like, ever since Marketing Studio came out and, you know, I've, like, I've never successfully gotten my any of the companies I've worked with to properly use HubSpot campaigns until Marketing Studio. And Marketing Studio is so simple for people to make their campaigns and visualize it because people aren't naturally visionary. They're not building the blocks in their brain of how the human's gonna go through the journey from the ad to the landing page to the CTA button, to the pop up form, to the form, to the meeting, or whatever. Right? However that journey is gonna go, the marketing studio tool operationalized people who never got it before, and they're running with it like gangbusters at my current organization.

Yeah. So And here's what I love. Chad, we're gonna be doing an episode on marketing studio. It's gonna be one of those where we'll we'll talk, but show where we'll show the episodes. Now now here's what I gotta kinda go behind the scenes for a second for the audience who's listening to this.

We had defined this before we hit the mics of, we're gonna do an episode on Loop Marketing. Yeah. Guys, you see how far we got? We defined

We just like said the words.

Yeah, we said the word, we said the phases.

And then Liz had a lot of feelings.

Liz had feelings.

Yeah, then feels.

But I want to give people the understanding, like, what I want to build here, which I think eventually ends up being like the ultimate resource, like Sidekick Strategy's Guide to Loop Marketing, is it because I want I want to give a window into where we're going to go. Now, the next episode we do might actually be marketing studio, and then we might circle back around and then do an episode on Loop Marketing, the express stage. Because here's where my brain goes to the level of granularity that we need to be talking about as we kind of wrap this bad boy up. When I think of all of these stages, like express, I think that there has to be a conversation around human tasks and skills that have to be true in the Express stage. I think there's a conversation where we have to talk about business objectives that are there for the Express stage.

I think there's a conversation that we have to have around tools and technology for the express stage. I think there's even a conversation around design and content, the conversation we love so much around the Express phase. I think there's also the need to talk about data and metrics in the Express stage. I think there's even additional considerations for the express stage. And by the way, rinse and repeat what I just said for every one of the four stages.

And so I really want to have conversations where we dig in and get super granular on what does this ish really mean so that humans aren't confused. They are able to scale. It is able to be repeatable. It is a system and they have it at a deeper level than what they might be thinking of like, oh, inbound marketing's dead.

Look, they've been saying blogging is dead for years.

We all

know that's not Yeah. Like, come on. Nothing's dead. We just what do marketers do? If we don't like it, we just rebrand it.

Yeah. Well, you gotta get the information out there for the AI to consume. Like, that's also important. I mean, there's so many different considerations, you know, when it comes to this AEO, the things, like so there's going to be plenty of more episodes coming about all of this really important stuff.

Yeah. Don't even get me started, Chad, because you say AEO, another person I get on a meeting says GEO. When you say AEO, you might be saying AI engine optimization. This other human I'm talking to might be saying answer engine optimization. Good god.

Right. Come on. Anyway.

Right. Well Liz. All growing so fast.

Heard these cats. Help help me wrap up here.

George, instead of landing the plane in the traditional way of telling us the one thing you want us to walk away from.

Yeah.

With this conversation with this. Is you've just teed up the fact that we're gonna be having lots of conversations around a lot of the new pieces that have come out and including going deeper into loop marketing. Right?

Yeah.

So what is if my feelings are any indication as well as the feelings that you shared that other people had told you, we might have a lot of squirrelly folks in the audience. Yeah. What is your one piece of advice going into our future episodes as we dive deeper into this?

Yeah, take a deep breath, keep an open mind. Yeah, absolutely not. I refuse.

She's got all the feels that are amped up right now.

Yeah, no, seriously though, take a deep breath.

Yeah.

Put on your growth mindset cap. Look at what you're currently doing, and start to map that out. Because then what you'll be able to do is take what you've mapped out, and what we talk about in the future and see what is right for you to change or not right for you to change, because not everything needs to change. Nobody said loop marketing meant that you curl up it in a ball, throw it in the wastebasket and start over. Nobody said that, but if you look on the internets, that's kind of how some people are acting.

So take a deep breath, put your growth mindset brain on, and start mapping out what you're doing. And we'll see you in the next episode. Hub Heroes. We've reached the end of another episode. Will Lord Lack continue to loom over the community or will we be able to defeat him in the next episode of the Hub Heroes podcast?

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