The HubHeroes Podcast

[00:00:00] George B. Thomas: Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed departments? Are your lackluster gross strategies demolishing your chances for success?
Are you held captive by the evil menace Lord Lack? Lack of time. Lack of strategy and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt. Knowledge. Never fear, Hub Heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the Hub Hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the League of Extraordinary Inbound Heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute.
It's time to unite and activate your powers! Before we begin, we need to disclose that Devin is currently employed by HubSpot at the time of this episode. I mean, we really don't need that because, um, Devin is Devin is standing on a TEDx stage. Right now speaking, which I say as, as a friendly friend, of course, I, hopefully it felt that way.
[00:01:21] Liz Moorehead: Does someone have a case of the jellies? Does someone have a case of the
[00:01:24] George B. Thomas: Like when I saw the message come through, I was like, son of a, like, but no, I'm happy for him. I'm, I
[00:01:31] Liz Moorehead: Can we also talk about how that's like the, what did I put in our Slack channel? My, he was apologizing. I'm sorry. I might not be able to make it because I'm on a TEDx stage and I, my response was, my dude, that is the greatest excuse to miss a recording of all
[00:01:46] George B. Thomas: Listen, it beats the dog ate my show notes, without a doubt, like, I'm like, dude, yeah, that's fine. Just go stand on the little red carpet and be a baller. And I'll just, I'll just
[00:02:01] Liz Moorehead: Just
[00:02:01] George B. Thomas: here.
[00:02:02] Liz Moorehead: Just be over here. Okay. Happy International Women's Day to
[00:02:06] George B. Thomas: Whoo.
[00:02:06] Liz Moorehead: I'm so glad to
[00:02:07] George B. Thomas: No, actually, I am glad I am glad that I'm sitting here talking to you about this because first of all, When you messaged me this morning about this, I was like, Ooh, this is actually a really important topic. We definitely need to like, kind of have this conversation. Um, anyway, I'm not going to say anymore until we get into the conversation.
[00:02:29] Liz Moorehead: I'm excited. Before we get into the conversation, there are a few little housekeeping items I want to just run through. Uh, first of all. Hello, bitches. I'm back two weeks without me. And now I'm back. Beep.
[00:02:41] George B. Thomas: Which, by the way, you were missed. You, you,
[00:02:43] Liz Moorehead: Oh, I know. I know. I listened to the episode last week and I had a deep amount of respect for you saying like, she keeps us in line.
She does all these great things. And then Mack saying yes. And sometimes she also gets us canceled. Very close. To be fair, to be, it is accurate. Like, I can't even be mad about that because when I heard it, I was just like, wait a minute. Well, that's true. That's true. We have had numerous moments where we've had to say, if Noah, the producer is laughing at something Liz says,
[00:03:10] George B. Thomas: Edit it. Edit it. Yeah. Yeah. If Noah giggles, edit, especially if Liz is speaking and Noah giggles, edit.
[00:03:19] Liz Moorehead: just, it's got to go. It's got to go. But what is exciting about this is as of the time that we are recording this, which is Friday, March 8th, this is my first episode back in my host chair here at hub heroes for the month of March, which is international women's month. And today. It's international women's day.
So before we get into today's topic, I just wanted to give a little shout out to all the ladies of inbound. I know George, you've got a few ladies you want to thank. Uh, do you want to start with yours or should I start with mine?
[00:03:50] George B. Thomas: can start with yours. You can start with
[00:03:52] Liz Moorehead: Okay. So I've got four very important women, V I W's who I want to thank, who make my inbound life just a little bit happier and a little bit brighter.
First I got to give a shout out to the one, the only, the, the lady, the myth, the legend. And Hanley of marketing profs, uh, as a content nerd, uh, who is obsessive about brand storytelling, uh, and also a big fan of a snappy pantsuit. And Hanley is just Godlike. She, I have learned so much from her, but most of all, what I really love about her, not only being a champion of authentic, raw, human storytelling.
As how much she really challenges people to, to come together as a community. And I know you work with her very closely as well, George. And you are also a huge, we're huge fans van.
[00:04:42] George B. Thomas: Oh. Mike. Uh, I don't even know. Probably a huge fan for me goes like, it's way past that. Like, she fundamentally is one of the, Yeah. Best human beings that I think I have ever met on this planet and has a heart of giving and adding value and creating great experiences that makes me challenge myself to do the same and be better.
Like,
[00:05:12] Liz Moorehead: I could not agree more. She's just absolutely incredible. So, and we love you so much. I also got to give a shout out to Kathleen Booth, who is the CMO over at pavilion, which is a community of marketers, marketing leaders, business owners. Who all come together to learn from each other. And I got to give a big shout out to Kathleen because quite frankly, I would not be sitting in this chair if it were not for Kathleen.
I ran into her 10 years ago, this summer, the day after I got laid off from a publishing job that was not in the industry, ended up seeing her in person by accident when a friend of mine. Uh, invited me out to lunch, I looked like I had just gotten kicked in the face and dumped by a man. Cause I was just depressed and sad.
And she looks at me and says, Oh, I heard you just lost your job. I'm like, yes, And she said, you write the beer column for the Capitol, right? Which is a local newspaper here in Annapolis. I said, yes, I do. And she said, Oh, I don't like beer. I'm like, great. Two for two for going, we're doing great. And then she said, but I really love your writing and I never miss. A column. Can you, do you want to come work with me for a bit? So I started as a freelance writer at our small inbound agency. Then I came in as an account manager. I became the content manager at Quintane and the rest, ladies and gentlemen, as I said, is history. So Kathleen is not only just a brilliant marketing leader, I highly recommend you check her out on LinkedIn.
She's phenomenal, but she bet on me. Uh, I owe her so much, uh, Kelly, your wife is on this list. The one and only Kelly Thomas behind the scenes, keeping us all in line. My favorite is during our staff meetings is when she's like, so when is the deadline for this going to be? You joker creatives. So Kelly, shout out to you.
You're amazing. Nothing would get done without you. Just absolutely nothing. Um, and then last but not least, Jesse Lee Nichols. Uh, she is an inbound legend. If you know website strategy at all and everything I learned about UX design and being a copywriter and content creator who doesn't make designers want to throw their computers out windows, I learned from her.
So JL, I love you so much. Thank you for everything. That's on my list. Who you got?
[00:07:28] George B. Thomas: it's interesting because for me, there's like, this was just an interesting journey, uh, in, in my brain of like different humans for different reasons. and there's the 1 thing that I realized is that I don't have enough time on this podcast to mention everybody, but there's just a ton of powerful. Yeah.
Educated, passionate women that I, I get to like, interview or, you know, they'll pick my brain. I'll pick theirs, uh, have worked together or haven't worked together in organizations. Um, and so I just tried to pop off, like, the 1st couple that, you know, hey, they made an impact. Uh, and when I say they made an impact Liz, you know, that usually for me, that means, like.
More than the head, uh, probably a lot in the heart. Like there was just a connection or there is a connection even if they don't realize like I see you boo like from a distance like I'd like what you're doing type thing like they might not
[00:08:37] Liz Moorehead: I just want to read. I just want that to be my ringtone from now on. If my phone ever rings with the text message, I see you
[00:08:43] George B. Thomas: I see you boo from a distance. Yeah. So, so, um, So I'll just, I'll just start. And if, again, if I, if you're listening to this and I don't mention you, you're probably like right on the other side of this list. But, um, first I have to start with, yes, my wife, who keeps me not only in business, but in life, um, headed on the right path.
Doing the right thing at the right time. I'm not losing my mind and going off the deep end. So Kelly, we love you and thank you for all that you do. I would have to also, even though they're new to the ecosystem, uh, list both of my daughters because Madison is deep knee deep into the social media side of what we do and, and you know, the part of the theme and really going in, like, how can we promote, but conversate.
In a human way online with what we're trying to do and everything that we're trying to create and, but not to mention, she's the one that has to make a sense of the mess of the plethora of content that I'm shoving out the door. Um, because I guess people say I create a lot of content, so I didn't
[00:09:56] Liz Moorehead: You dabble.
[00:09:57] George B. Thomas: didn't realize that I created a lot of content, but I guess so that that's and then.
With the written word and trying to, you know, take some of these ideas and make them reality and humanize them along the way with some of the stuff that we're playing around with on the back end of like content creation process and stuff. And of course, Liz, I have to mention you. Um, we've told the story before of like meeting when we're working at an impact and then, you know, meeting at the airport when we're headed to go to the same event.
And now just the stuff that you do and the way that you help with hub heroes and beyond your default and just the content strategy and clients in general. Um, it's, it's like, I gotta give you props. So, so with those. Important humans out of the way, uh, and, and making sure that I notate that. Um, here are a few other women of inbound, which by the way, this might be a really dope article.
Uh, I'll turn off the content brain
[00:10:57] Liz Moorehead: I hope you're listening.
[00:10:59] George B. Thomas: right. Um, so I have to mention, uh, Stephanie Bioki because Stephanie Bioki has been like an amazing human. Um, really had a great connection. Love what she does. Love her focus on community. Um, you know, it, it again, if I think of like happy, helpful, humble humans, um, just definitely somebody that I'm like, yeah, okay.
Thank you. I would definitely go out of my way to assist this human if at any point in time they needed anything, um, had a question, whatever. I just won't even limit it to questions. But, um, she is a great human, a great individual.
[00:11:42] Liz Moorehead: Killing it with events over at impact.
[00:11:44] George B. Thomas: my God. Yeah. So just, and again, events, come on, like maybe I put on a couple events here and there.
And so like, I love the idea of like, Just that, um, another, uh, woman of inbound that I have to mention is, um, Audrey D Martinez. Uh, she's actually the VP of client success at impulse creative of the amount that this woman does to help run the agency that is impulse creative. And of course it's owned by Remington and Rachel bag, which by the way, Rachel bank should be on this list because.
As a, you know, percentage owner of the agency, mother of two, um, again, great, great human, but, but Audrey is like, and again, I, I know there's like, so I'm curious by the way, how many of these humans that I'll list actually had a food service or waiter or waitress or, or, or like some type of like, helping, Normal humans, like, uh, anyway, like Audrey is very regimented and everything has a plan and there's a plan for the plan.
And I like talk about just keeping things the way that they should be and keeping clients happy. Um, I just, I would always sit back and watch the way that she would do what she did and be like, freaking amazing, freaking, just freaking amazing. another person I want to mention, because I had a chance to interview her, plus she's also been a co host of Inbound for the last two years with Troy Sandage, is Christina Kay.
Um, again, great human. Uh, lots of pink, lots of hair, lots of like, just putting stuff out on the internet, but again, it all comes down to, uh, you, I, what I loved over time and watching is this, this belief in herself growth journey to be able to step out, uh, you know, behind from behind the desk onto the internet, onto the inbound stage.
Um, and it's just, it's just beautiful. Been a real cool journey, uh, to, to watch as far as that goes. I definitely, um, which by the way, I was like,
I had a moment and this is about a week ago, maybe two weeks ago. Um, where this individual actually followed me on X or Twitter, if you still call it that, and I was like, wait. What? What,
[00:14:22] Liz Moorehead: you fan boy for a moment? We were like me.
[00:14:25] George B. Thomas: Hey, I immediately messaged and said Appreciate you. Thanks. You're killing it. but, uh, Yamini.
So, Yamini. Here's, here's the thing, like.
[00:14:36] Liz Moorehead: CEO of HubSpot, Yamini.
[00:14:38] George B. Thomas: yes, yes. So, here's the thing. Because, um, if you know me, I love Brian Halligan. And I love,
[00:14:46] Liz Moorehead: love B Hal?
[00:14:47] George B. Thomas: mean, and I love Dharmesh. And when, all of a sudden, like, this moment where Brian was going away, and Yamini was coming in, I was like, I was a little bit like, Oh no, like, I, Oh no. Uh, uh, there, there should have never been.
Oh no. About it. Like, I just, I feel like she is, uh, like when I watch, so she did this thing for the, um, partner. Uh, thing that we're just part of because there's like some new stuff coming down the pipeline that I won't talk about because we're not allowed, but she was, she was doing this thing and I was just watching her present and even like inbound last year and the year before that.
I was like, you know what? It just, it is all good. Feels good. We're in good hands. Um, and, and so it's just fun to sit back and realize like, in a digital way, yeah. Like being able to like rub elbows with people like Yamini and Christina and Stephanie and Audrey and Liz, and, you know, even having, uh, up and coming women in my household of like, who will they become?
Where will they go? It's just a, it's great to sit back and enjoy and watch. and not that they need any help, but man, I know me, I'm like, If I can help any of these people become anything more than they already are becoming by themselves, like, I, I would give all the time to make any of that happen.
[00:16:23] Liz Moorehead: So wait, just to reiterate though, Yamini follows you.
[00:16:26] George B. Thomas: She, as of a couple weeks ago, yes, I, I got, but yeah, and it was a moment. I mean,
[00:16:32] Liz Moorehead: happy International Women's Day to
[00:16:34] George B. Thomas: I may have done a happy dance.
[00:16:36] Liz Moorehead: Just a small one. I can't believe you didn't tell me. I can't believe you've known this for weeks and you have, that was not like immediately like, I understand this is a staff meeting, however, I have an announcement. PowerPoint presentation, multiple slides.
This was me yesterday before Yamini followed me. This is me today when I found out, and this is me now after I've sat with this
[00:16:54] George B. Thomas: This is gonna be weird, but I've just never been that guy to like, oh, I just got, cause it's funny. Like
[00:17:03] Liz Moorehead: I know.
[00:17:04] George B. Thomas: I know, but if, if, if people could, if people could see maybe, well, they can, but like, like, there's just. Listen, and again, this is not why we're here, but I have done a lot of work over the last 12 years to build a network of people who are actually telling their network that I probably need to be part of it.
And so there are these times where all sudden I'll get a follow or there'll be just a flat out conversation and I'm like. How am I talking to this human right now? And, um, but I've never been this guy to be like, uh, I just had a meeting with Gary Vaynerchuk today, or I just got a, had a phone call with like John Janst or like whoever it is, I've always just kind of been like, yeah, that's a nice feather in my cap, but like, just keep your mouth shut and keep working.
[00:17:56] Liz Moorehead: know, I know that. I know as someone who has coached you on your brand personality and being a whole ass human, we have had extensive conversations of, I understand you are humble and that is great, but can you stop doing it to the point of your own detriment? I don't need you to suddenly start throwing parades, but like maybe just slide like a little post it note across Slack and be like, yo, dog, check this out.
Um, also you didn't build a network. Devin isn't here to shame us. We have been building a network. A family,
[00:18:22] George B. Thomas: Yes. Familia. Familia. I'll be the, I'll be the Dominic Toretto of the group because I like the, the best cars. And I also love that Chad is giving me, um, he's like, bro,
[00:18:35] Liz Moorehead: It's okay to be excited
[00:18:36] George B. Thomas: like, it's okay to be excited about
[00:18:38] Liz Moorehead: to be excited. Yes, it is. It's totally okay to be excited. Oh my gosh. I love all of this. Are we okay. Happy international women's day. Obviously we love the ladies here as, as a lady myself. Um, shall we get into it? Are you ready to get into our big topic for today?
[00:18:54] George B. Thomas: Yeah. Let's get into it.
[00:18:56] Liz Moorehead: Let's get into it. Okay. This, if you have been a long time listener, first time caller of hub heroes, even if it only goes back a couple of weeks, I won't shame you. I won't tell on you. You may recall that George and I were left to our own devices a few weeks ago, and you and I sat down and had a very interesting conversation about how inbound has changed. With the one and only George B. Thomas. And we're back, we're back again this week for another fireside chat, because when you and I sat down to talk about what we wanted to discuss this week, I don't think I told you this at the time, but I asked you my usual question, you know, what's on your mind. And you said, you know, we've been talking a lot about technology and integrations and sales and operations and commerce.
And you looked at me and you just said, I just miss nerding out about old school inbound marketing stuff. And what I didn't tell you at the time is I literally. Was thinking the same thing. I was just trying to keep my mouth shut since I tend to just like steamroll people with all of my words, but I had the exact same idea.
And so when I sat down today to think about, well, what is it that we're going to talk about? Well, what's the flip side of that coin? How has inbound changed? We've already talked about that. So this week we're going to be talking about just you and me, buddy, celebrating the inbound marketing classics.
That never go out of style, but I want to kick this over to you first with a question. Why does this conversation matter to you, particularly in light of the conversation you and I just had a couple of weeks ago?
[00:20:23] George B. Thomas: Yeah. I, I think because Listen, everything, the only thing that stays the same is everything changes. That's what people will say. And I think this is important because I want people to understand, and sometimes maybe they do, and sometimes maybe they get swept away with this super fast digital SaaS HubSpot inbound social content marketing world we live in.
Is it? Well, yes, things change. There are pieces of what we live, the fabric of life, if you will, fundamental principles. Um, they always stay the same. And so sometimes change doesn't mean ripping everything out, but it means re strategizing and tweaking something that you might have already been doing.
Doing so that's why I would say, I think this is important to me is like, there's, there's a whole mindset around these things that will continue to work. There's this whole mindset around, um. instead of killing or, or optimizing instead of like, ousting it right that I, I would want people to think about.
And, um, there's also like, this mindset of just a. Deeper level. to the things that we actually might be doing because right now we feel like it's our job or some strategy that some guy on stage or a gal on stage said we should be doing.
[00:21:59] Liz Moorehead: I love that for me, this conversation matters for a very simple reason. I'm so flipping tired of marketers. Saying everything is dead
[00:22:09] George B. Thomas: Oh,
[00:22:12] Liz Moorehead: percent of the time that they declare something dead. It is wildly premature. It is very much alive. SEO has been dead for what? Seven years blogging has been dead.
It's gone. I spent half of today reading blogs, by the way. Thank you very much. If you put, if you put a blog full of really good educational information on there, that's built for humans, that's actually valuable and helpful. Guess what? Jokers, people are going to use it.
[00:22:38] George B. Thomas: Yeah. I may or I may or may not have actually written about 9600 words for a blog article earlier today. So I
[00:22:46] Liz Moorehead: You did what?
[00:22:47] George B. Thomas: Anyway, we can talk about that later.
[00:22:49] Liz Moorehead: Is that the thing that got assigned to me in ClickUp?
[00:22:51] George B. Thomas: Uh, you mean the mastering HubSpot ads from beginner to expert, a complete guide? Yeah, that thing? Yeah.
[00:22:58] Liz Moorehead: So when I ask you what your favorite God, I'm sorry, I'm having a
[00:23:02] George B. Thomas: We need, like, some, like, break music or
[00:23:06] Liz Moorehead: Please hold, Liz is experiencing technical difficulties.
[00:23:09] George B. Thomas: just broke a human.
[00:23:11] Liz Moorehead: Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Now. I, I love that. I love that for all of us. I love that for all of us, honestly, that, you know what, we're going to get to content later in this discussion.
You know, that's where I'm going to go, but I want to start with you. When I ask you what your favorite inbound marketing classic is that never goes out of style. When I say classic, I mean, anything, whether we're talking about core principles, strategies, best practices, anything. What is the very first thing that comes to mind?
What's your
[00:23:37] George B. Thomas: helpful. Doesn't matter in what form. Being helpful. Like, Yeah. Okay. Listen, you reap what you sow, fundamental life principle. So if we're in the world of digital, if we're in the world of inbound, then what does that mean? It means being helpful. What does that mean? It means adding value. What does that mean?
It then leads into creating content, which means it could be blogging. It could be video. It could be whatever format you want it to be, but it all boils down to being helpful. Because when you're helpful, you become significant when you're significant, people value you and the words that come out of your mouth or that you type what again, however, it is.
And so immediately. Just be helpful. Liz. What?
[00:24:25] Liz Moorehead: what I find funny about that though? I I'll get to mine in a second, but you know what I find interesting about that? As soon as you said that my, my, my human part of me went, yes, helpfulness. I love this. I agree with all of it, but then I couldn't help. I know. I couldn't help but remember how it was like in the very early days of Inbound and how skittish everyone, everybody was to give too much away.
So it's almost like it's a classic that is emerging, like this was always the spirit of Inbound, but it feels like we're only just now all kind of stepping into it. Do you know what I mean? We're seeing more people being more willing to ungate things, being less scarcity mindset around their quote unquote secret sauce.
[00:25:09] George B. Thomas: yeah. Well, so there's the thing and be careful when we say all because all it could be like our bubble versus like there are so many organizations out there that haven't even heard about HubSpot so many organizations have heard about HubSpot and aren't even using it so many that have HubSpot and aren't even doing inbound there's so many people that are doing inbound have HubSpot or have heard about HubSpot and aren't being helpful at all.
Anyway, just a
[00:25:35] Liz Moorehead: But then there's the inverse of that though. That's the inverse of that though. Like, think about one of our clients that we work with, right? Sean Farrell at QDS. Um, he is someone where he found inbound, but no one had to teach that man to be selfless, selfless, educational, or helpful. He was, he was born that way, baby.
Like that's how he showed up. That's how he was built. So there's this interesting thing where I think some of the organizations that have always done it really well. Have always shown up. Like you said, with the backbone of I'm just here to serve,
[00:26:07] George B. Thomas: and that's the
[00:26:08] Liz Moorehead: serve looks and education.
[00:26:10] George B. Thomas: and that's, that's what I, I want to dive into that because I say, You know what? It's funny. The word helpful could mean a bunch of different things to a bunch of different people. And when I say helpful, I literally am coming from this level of service. And when you're coming from a level of service, there is no secret sauce.
And I think what is amazing is when I think about my journey in 2012 and HubSpot was like, don't call me customer, call me human. And they were talking about adding value to the world. And in their lens, it was content creation and then meeting Marcus and being part of the sales line team and him preaching from the mountaintop.
There is no secret sauce. Talk about best talk about pros and con talk about price. Like you, everybody knows all the secrets that you think that you're keeping in your little locked box. They're not true. Like, talk about it, and I mean, between that being human and being helpful and there's no secret sauce, and I'm going to write about everything, I'm going to make a video about everything, I'm going to do 3, 000 HubSpot tutorials for free, Like, that's what I mean when I say helpful, helpful from a level of service of like, I don't care if I ever get paid for this.
Understanding that I absolutely will because there are so many humans that can't still set their VCR that will pay Geek Squad to do it. I know nobody else has a VCR, but it's a good analogy and your mind went there and you understood what I meant. Anyway,
[00:27:46] Liz Moorehead: I was there with you,
[00:27:47] George B. Thomas: yeah, this level of service. That it again, I go back to when I say that and I circle back to you reap what you sow the reason that our organization has been so successful as fast as it has is due to this helpful servanthood, no secret sauce amongst me being in, you know, multiple agencies over the time that I was an employee is exactly why we're at where we're at today as an as an owner.
[00:28:20] Liz Moorehead: I love that. All right. So when I think of what is your favorite inbound marketing classic. So you're going to ask me
[00:28:26] George B. Thomas: Yeah, I guess.
[00:28:27] Liz Moorehead: am I, where does my brain immediately go? I mean, the reality is it's content, but I'm going to be more specific. I'm going to say written content,
[00:28:35] George B. Thomas: Yeah.
[00:28:35] Liz Moorehead: written content. I am of two minds about why people try to run away from written content as quickly as possible.
And I don't believe it's an either or situation. I believe it's the little column A and it's the little column B. Liz loves how the idea of content has evolved in order to better serve the humans that you are trying to reach, educate, empower, help them make smarter decisions faster so they can have more autonomy and ownership over their lives and their purchasing decisions.
I love that that service is now extended to. Well, how do they best consume information? There are people who learn better visually. There are people who learn better listening. There are still some people like me who are just sociopaths who would just rather have a big old document she can print out and mark up.
Like that's, you know, that
[00:29:23] George B. Thomas: You're not alone. You're
[00:29:24] Liz Moorehead: I know, but that's. That's the thing. So I think what we've seen is a natural evolution of diversifying the content mix, which is something you and I've talked about on previous episodes. I also think, let's just face it, written content feels like homework. So people are like, well, I can do this as a video or a podcast instead and never write anything down ever, ever again.
No, it's just never going to happen. There's something that happens. When you put like, even think about the video that you're going to go record for me tomorrow morning. It started with a written video script instead of talk, instead of talking points. There is something about the written word. And again, this is where I'm going to show my booty as a writer.
First, there is something about The right words on a screen that will just punch you in the stomach more than anything else more than hearing it more than seeing it, or more than seeing it, like, on a video and having it spoken to you. There is something about the right words in front of you. That can make you feel something.
And I believe strongly, and this is what I work with you on and our clients on and with myself of look, you could say a thousand different things, a thousand different ways, right? The spirit of get out. And you may want to consider vacating the premises is exactly the same, but the tone is different. The message is different.
How it hits you is different. And so when I think about the inbound marketing classic that never goes out of style, well, if you do it right words, if you take the time to say something real. Words, you know, one of my favorite quotes from Ernest Hemingway is writing is simple. Just cut a vein and bleed on a typewriter.
Like it's, it's like, okay, dude, do you need a therapist? But that's also very powerful and moving. Or my other favorite line that he, the other favorite things that he says is, Just sit down and write one true sentence, write the truest thing that you know. And whenever I get stuck writing just a simple piece of content, I will think about that.
And if that's all it is, just say, and you hear me say this to you all the time. What is it that you're really trying to say? What is it that you really mean? You simplify it for me. Like what, what is it that you're really trying to say to people? Anyway, that's my classic. And I saw you starting to pace a little bit.
You got some thoughts there?
[00:31:36] George B. Thomas: Well, yeah, cause you, you, I mean, like it, Real, um, not manufactured, not what you think they want to hear your brain, your human ness of it all, right? And I think there's a, there's a piece to that, that like, whenever we go into organizations and we do have this conversation, Again, it can feel like homework because they're at work and, and there's this little thing that I'll say is, and again, trust me, this has been a hard week. I still call it play. I've had a chance to play all week. And when you think of it that way, it doesn't feel so much like homework. It doesn't feel like a box you have to check. Um, it feels like you're writing the story that people need to hear to make their organizations and themselves better along the way, which, by the way, I can't wait to get to the video that you alluded to so that we can get the page that we've been painstakingly creating and telling the story.
About super admin training and what we're going to do with that moving forward in the future and how people can be part of that because I've been doing the super admin HubSpot Academy boot camp, and it's a 6 week boot camp. And through that, doing that 4 different times and having hundreds of people sign up each time, I've realized that it's just not enough time.
And we're not hitting enough of the hard topics that we need to be hitting. Um, and that's all I'll say here today now, but just know that there is something coming for people who want to be, or who are super admins and want to get the most out of HubSpot, out of inbound, out of content, out of the mindsets that they need to have.
Like, so I'm, I'm excited to be real and authentic and human while creating that video, because it is a true pain point that I've seen people deal with that we're trying to solve.
[00:33:43] Liz Moorehead: look at this breaking news here today. I like, you're like, I'm not going to say very much. Sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle,
[00:33:50] George B. Thomas: Little content sprinkles here and
[00:33:52] Liz Moorehead: little razzle dazzle. The other thing I will say about authenticity too, and this is, this is another favorite. Look, Hemingway is my guy. He's my ride or die. I love that guy.
Um, One of my favorite stories about him is some beef that he got into with William Faulkner, who was another writer at the time. William Faulkner once said, poor Ernest never met a big word that didn't send him running for a dictionary. And my favorite thing about Hemingway is he responded with poor William.
He thinks only big ideas come from big words. Might've been big emotions. One of the two, but either way, the reason why I mentioned that is because you can be. Of service, you can be a powerful word slinging human, you don't need to be a writer. And I think that's often the greatest misconception. Usually I talk with people and say, you're already doing it.
You're, you're doing the thing verbally right now that we just need to get onto paper. Do we need to refine it? Do we need to massage it? Yes. That's why you have Liz. But like that, that idea that you have to fundamentally become somebody else in order to be a powerful communicator is, is bunk. Anyway. Side talk for another day.
So what are the evergreen inbound marketing mindsets and ways of thinking that folks should never, ever let go of? We've talked a lot about humanity and service already and, and, and helpfulness, but what are some others?
[00:35:14] George B. Thomas: Oh, man, I, I have, um, I have said this so many times in so many different ways, um, to so many different people and it's sometimes I feel like part of what I do is like light. Marriage counseling for organizational departments. Um, yeah, yeah. So when I think about like an evergreen inbound marketing mindset, um, I would say this is an evergreen inbound sales mindset.
I would say this is an evergreen inbound, uh, operations, Rev Ops, uh, inbound human mindset, um, Have conversations with your people like in conversations You get to know people. In conversations, you can ask questions. When you ask a question, you get the answer or the data from the human. By getting the answer or the data from the human, you actually get insight to who they are, the way they think, and you can take action on that information that has been provided to you.
If it sounds vaguely familiar, it could be what I'm talking about is. Inbound reporting, you have data that equals insights that equal action, but you can take that and you can drive it down to a human level where, why in God's name are you sitting in your cubicle, hitting your head against the slightly padded cardboard wall?
Not being able to figure out what it is that you truly need to do next when you could just poke your head up or you could go onto a zoom or you could enter slack and actually have a conversation with other humans about the things that you're trying to achieve and the ways that you could do it. The lack of whiteboards and humans and marketers that not marketers.
And markers, try erase markers that is not happening in organizations is absolutely mind blowing to me. And so I know it sounds weird to say that this is an inbound mindset, but conversating with humans. Is always a good idea.
[00:37:42] Liz Moorehead: I'm just here for the use of conversating today. I'm really a big fan of it.
[00:37:47] George B. Thomas: I, I don't get it. The visceral response that I see on screen again, going back to the super admin bootcamp that I've been doing for HubSpot Academy, when I say in three different places in three different weeks in the training, this is a whiteboard conversate with your humans moment. The, the visceral facial reactions of either excitement, absolute dread.
Amaze me. Just amaze me.
[00:38:16] Liz Moorehead: I love that. So question for you,
[00:38:18] George B. Thomas: Yeah.
[00:38:19] Liz Moorehead: especially as someone who I know you are a big fan of experimentation. I know you are a big fan of in smart ways, keeping your finger on the pulse of what's new, what's happening. How can we always, how can, how we can be smartly scaling, iterating, integrating new technologies and ways of doing things.
How do you balance that, right? How do you keep a foot planted firmly and confidently in both worlds? And when I say that, what I mean is. One foot rooted in these principles of inbound that we never want to lose sight of, but also being able to keep one foot pointed toward the horizon, right? How do you, how do you manage that balance between forward thinking and progressive, but also maintaining that route?
[00:39:02] George B. Thomas: Yeah, I feel like we're about to pass into another podcast that we do with where my brain's going
[00:39:09] Liz Moorehead: That's okay. That's what happens when we're left alone. Max and Devin should know better.
[00:39:14] George B. Thomas: so There has to be this Ability to create an internal compass for yourself that you're paying attention to, and you can just feel when something feels right or it doesn't feel right. And Liz, this concept that I'm talking about is the exact reason Why I started with you the Beyond Your Default podcast is because after 12 years of helping humans with HubSpot, I realized that not all humans have been made in a way or have lived a life where they just fundamentally, when HubSpot said, don't call me customer, call me human, they were like, They didn't know what human or good human meant or good human actions in business meant.
And so like, for me personally, there's this internal compass and I'm always paying attention to. Most of the time paying attention to it. I am only human. I am flawed. I do make mistakes, but I'm really trying to pay attention to it. And there's just a feeling that I'll get to. Let's try this. Let's test this.
Let's see. Or I'll be like, no, let's stay away from that because that is absolutely outbound the spammy. Um, not human, not helpful, um, it's more nonsense and noise than it is needed action from like the standpoint of our organization and what we do. And like, the other day, I was on a, I was having a conversation with a friend had nothing to do with inbound, by the way, nothing to do with content, but I was in the middle of this conversation where he had asked me a question and I just paused. And there was a long moment of silence and it's because I felt the compass and I was like, bro, you're my friend and this is going to hurt, but my compass just tweaked. And I got to tell you, in my opinion, what you just said sounds very vindictive
and that's not where he was trying to go or what he was trying to be.
But it was a moment where I was, and so that was in a personal life setting, but the same thing happens in business settings around inbound and content and sales and marketing and service, I'll literally be doing like consulting with clients and they'll bring up something and I'll be like, that doesn't feel right.
Um, I either want to say no, or I want to say we should talk about that later and look in a deep dive into it to see how we might make it feel more like it should feel. Um, I don't know if that's the greatest of answers, but like I need people to understand there is a. But sometimes we go to work and we do inbound and what we do just in the head.
And the problem with that is that inbound and when we do what we do and when it is foundation on being a happy, helpful, humble human, a lot of that work needs to be from the heart. From the compass.
[00:42:21] Liz Moorehead: Are you ready for a softball question at least something a little easier?
[00:42:24] George B. Thomas: Wow. I
[00:42:26] Liz Moorehead: lying to you. The next one is equally. I'm
[00:42:29] George B. Thomas: at that last one.
[00:42:30] Liz Moorehead: No, I'm lying to you. It's not a softball. It's not. So what inbound marketing basics are you concerned folks are getting away from?
[00:42:38] George B. Thomas: Oh,
[00:42:40] Liz Moorehead: I always know it's a good question when I get that out of you. When it sounds like somebody squeezed you unexpectedly and just air comes rushing out.
[00:42:48] George B. Thomas: ask me that question again.
[00:42:50] Liz Moorehead: What inbound marketing basics are you concerned that folks are getting away from?
[00:42:54] George B. Thomas: Okay. Oh boy. the word time comes to mind. What I mean by that is so many people right now, especially in this AI infused AI powered AI generated world that we're living in. So many people are trying to have a microwave mentality, like, dee dee dee dee boop, beep, done. Um, instead of realizing, like, the good meal, the good food, like, It's the crockpot, or the pressure cooker, or the, the oven, like, it takes a minute, right?
So, I, I'm not bashing AI, by the way, I think we can use AI to speed up some parts of the process, but so many people are trying to, sorry for the term I'm about to use, but shit things out. Instead of taking the time to make them be the best that they could be, um, so many people are just living, um, a life that they feel is taking them from 1 day to the next, instead of taking the time to design it in what they want it to be.
And again, this is a little bit personal, a little bit professional. We all complain about time. We all feel like we're a slave to time and our calendars. Um, we all feel like we have to reach these or beat these deadlines. And, and back in the day, Inbound was about taking the time to be a magnet. It was about taking the time to have the conversation.
It was about taking the time to make things that were important a priority and actually have the conversations and create the content around it needing to be said or be done. And in a world of listicles and hacks and I just wish that we would realize good things take time. Listen, I was an employee for, well, almost all my life, but in agencies for like 15 to almost 20 years, an employee for 12 to 10 years, HubSpot agencies, like that's, uh, that's.
That is time. And what I want to pair with this piece of conversation is time and patience, time and patience in the belief that if you give it the time and have the patience, it's going to actually equal the thing that you're doing. That is what you're looking for, but it's not about viral. It's not about quick wins.
It's about putting in the work and the diligence and the time and the love and the passion for the humans that have hurdles that you're trying to knock down and get them out of their way. So they have a straight line to run to the aspirational point or success that they're trying to reach.
[00:46:01] Liz Moorehead: I'm so excited. I didn't know. I think you saw me reaching for my notebook
[00:46:07] George B. Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:46:08] Liz Moorehead: because for some reason, 10
[00:46:11] George B. Thomas: Uh, oh.
[00:46:11] Liz Moorehead: I decided to start tracking something. You're not in trouble. You're fine. I'm supporting your point. See this little post it note. You can see it. Our listeners at home can't see it, right?
It's got what, 15, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 little hash marks.
[00:46:27] George B. Thomas: Uh oh. What are we
[00:46:28] Liz Moorehead: the past 10 days, I have tracked the number of times I heard somebody pull up a piece of content and go, well, that's clearly generated by AI.
[00:46:36] George B. Thomas: Mmm.
[00:46:38] Liz Moorehead: times
[00:46:40] George B. Thomas: Yeah.
[00:46:41] Liz Moorehead: I have heard someone say that and it's, I have never been the one to say it. It is not something where I'm like, what do you thi I didn't bait anyone. I just noticed I heard it twice in one day and I'm like, I should just start tracking this. 'cause I knew I had heard it a couple times previously.
And what I think is starting to happen is the thing that you and I have talked about all the time, which is use AI to work smarter, not harder. Right. But it, we know what AI sounds like. We, we all know now, and it's become so ubiquitous that what will happen in many of those cases, we're like, well, then that's useless.
We can't use that. Like, that's not going to tell us anything.
[00:47:17] George B. Thomas: Yeah.
[00:47:18] Liz Moorehead: And this was us looking at B2B and B2C content that marketers were creating and publishing in order to check the box. Oh, you're doing a dance. Tell me, are we, are we about to go to marketing church? Are we about to get, are Oh, boy. Okay, everyone settle.
Sit in your pews, please.
[00:47:34] George B. Thomas: I I I hope. I pr Well, first of all, before I go into this, Uh, Chad in the chat pane. Pump it into AI. Done. Like he's, he's joking, by the
[00:47:48] Liz Moorehead: No, he's joking. He's saying, yeah,
[00:47:50] George B. Thomas: for those of you that can't see the chat being because
[00:47:52] Liz Moorehead: Chad's our guy,
[00:47:53] George B. Thomas: us live chat is my dude. And yeah, that is what people are doing. And Liz, that is why you're able to document that.
And, and I, I hope and I pray that the powers that be. Above and the powers that be for inbound pick my AI and being human in a world of AI for me to do for my inbound talk this year, because there are so many things that I want to talk about and there are so many ways that we could be using this in really positive ways.
And instead, we're doing what most humans do, and we all know, humans will human, we're using it as the shortcut, we're using it as, let's speed up the, um, you know, wow, shoot, not the escalator, but the, uh, the,
[00:48:50] Liz Moorehead: the human mover,
[00:48:51] George B. Thomas: the chocolates and the, I love Lucy and
[00:48:54] Liz Moorehead: belt, conveyor
[00:48:55] George B. Thomas: belt to
[00:48:55] Liz Moorehead: There we go.
[00:48:56] George B. Thomas: belt, we'll play this game every episode from now on, probably, I'll just do a show and a scene and we'll know what
[00:49:02] Liz Moorehead: on the Davenport.
[00:49:03] George B. Thomas: Oh, there we go. That's a throwback to like episode. I don't know, whatever,
[00:49:08] Liz Moorehead: like four,
[00:49:09] George B. Thomas: but there are so many things like.
There's just so many things that I want to talk about around that, Liz, because it doesn't have to be that way. You said, we just know what AI sounds like. It doesn't have to sound that way.
[00:49:24] Liz Moorehead: right? The other thing too, though, is that,
[00:49:27] George B. Thomas: element to it, right? There can be. Anyway,
[00:49:30] Liz Moorehead: but we're starting to know what it sounds like we're starting, like, that's the thing. Humans are experts at picking up patterns. Our brains are designed to identify patterns. Patterns
[00:49:41] George B. Thomas: but here's the thing. https: otter. ai That is just gonna, maybe people will understand the problem is that you're asking AI to be your writer. I don't need AI to be my writer. I just need it to be my typist. And there's a big, there's a big difference because it can type a lot faster than I can, but I don't need it to have the idea. See, a writer has the ideas.
A writer has the emotions. A writer has the human element in history that it can tie into. If I don't give it all of those things, if I don't give it the research, if I don't set it up for success, if I don't teach it how I want it to be, it's. Then yes, it's going to be a writer that sounds like AI and people are going to be doing hashtags of like, here are all the shit pieces on the internet.
But if I say, I really suck at typing, I need AI to be my typist. But if I was going to give the typist the work that I need to be done here, all the things that they would need to know, here's all the ways that they would have to believe, and here's all the research that I would want them spending hours to do now, please type this for me.
And by the way, then I'm not hitting the publish button. I'm going back and seeing how good did my typist do and being able to tweak it from there.
[00:51:02] Liz Moorehead: I love that the flip side of that for me as a content creator and a writer by trade, because it's interesting. I think there are two different use cases, right? Like the, the fast thinking visionary, like you, who it's like, uh, my brain is moving faster than my fingers could ever type. I need help getting that, that dump down.
AI tools can help for me, where I find AI to be the most helpful is helping me. Get raw material together or giving me a bunch of things that I can break apart and mold into my own so often it'll so often it'll I'll get something from AI that's like I would this is completely unusable but this was the spark I needed to write the right thing.
And I love that. Now, I do want to before we move on to the last question, George. Before we, before we bid adieu to everybody, I do want to just give a brief summary of George's answer to the last question I just gave, which is inbound. Dad isn't angry. He's just disappointed and angry moving on. If there is one foundation, did you like that?
You like that?
[00:52:05] George B. Thomas: I'm definitely getting hate mail after that. Summarization.
[00:52:08] Liz Moorehead: Don't you love that? You're going to get hate mail for something that I said, I honestly think that's a win. I love that big fan. I love that. He, Chad just said, he's not angry. He's just sad and angry. Exactly.
[00:52:20] George B. Thomas: Yeah.
[00:52:21] Liz Moorehead: Angry inbound dad coming to an inbound stage near you. All right.
[00:52:25] George B. Thomas: be that guy.
[00:52:27] Liz Moorehead: Last question. If there's one foundational classic inbound marketing principle, tactic, or best practice, you wish more than anything that hub spotters and inbounders paid more attention to in the coming year.
And you only get one George, not five, not four, not two. Not, I know you said one, but one. What would it be?
[00:52:49] George B. Thomas: I know you said one, but
[00:52:51] Liz Moorehead: Oh my god. Podcast over! I'm walking out!
[00:52:56] George B. Thomas: turn it off.
[00:52:57] Liz Moorehead: I will turn this podcast around, so help me.
[00:53:02] George B. Thomas: Yeah, it's funny. It's, uh, I've said it a bazillion times. gloss over it. I don't think they know what I mean by it. And this is the perfect opportunity to talk about it. And so my one thing is be happy. And I don't probably mean it the way that you think I mean it when I just say be happy. Like, uh, don't worry.
Be happy. helpful, humble human. The happy side of this. The happy side is realizing that you can come from a place of abundance. That you don't have to market or sell from a place of lack. Happy means you don't necessarily have to go to work, but you can go to play. Happy means that you've actually designed a system, processes, and time to live the life and be in the occupation that you truly enjoy versus feeling like you're a slave or a cage to any of those things that I just mentioned. if you look at your content, if you look at your strategies, if you look at your business, And fundamentally you drew a line in the sand and you said, how do we make in the organization a happiness matrix and metrics for everybody internally and pay attention to that in drive. By the way, if you don't have a culture code, check out HubSpots and try to figure that out for your organization.
And on the other side of the line, you literally have and how By the way, HubSpot's been preaching this. They call this delation or delighting. How do we make the humans that we serve happy? What do we, what has to be true for them to be happy? How can we not make it just a monthly transaction, but how can everything internally and externally be based in a relationship that is fundamentally foundationally based on. People being happy.
[00:55:07] Liz Moorehead: I love that. That makes me, that makes me happy. Uh, mine is simple and I feel like I've stolen it from you, but I, I, I'd like to think though that the reason why you and I came together so magically is this is, this has always been the core principle that has united us both. Be a human. Be a whole ass human, do it every single day, do it over and over and over and over again.
The one thing I love when I get on stage is I do get, you've seen me on stage. I'm, I'm a little wild. I'm a little extreme. I'm a little, I'm a little out there and people will say to me, well, Liz, you can do that. You get to do that because you're a marketer. So you know that I'm in B2B marketing and I also have to sell things and people have to think that I'm good at what I do and that I'm an expert and that I take what I do.
Anybody. Can be their whole ass cells anytime they want and being a whole ass human doesn't mean all of a sudden I'm going to be a standup comedian. Now I'm going to quote fast and furious. I'm going to do all these things. You just need to be yourself. You just need to close the distance between what it's like to know you in person.
And putting that in content so that way people get the experience of you faster. That's all it has to be. Just be yourself. Be a human. Be human. Inbound mom is also disappointed and angry. We love you though. Kisses. Is your homework done?
[00:56:25] George B. Thomas: Mm. Mm. I think that's where that ends right
[00:56:29] Liz Moorehead: Yeah, that's where that
[00:56:30] George B. Thomas: there's people that are making excuses about their dog eating their homework and wondering if they should just crawl under the couch right now.