Content in 2024: AI, Brand Storytelling, + Content Program Breakdowns (an AMA with Liz)
Do you live in a world filled with corporate data? Are you plagued by siloed departments? Are your lackluster growth strategies demolishing your chances for success? Are you held captive by the evil menace Lord Lack? Lack of time, lack of strategy, and lack of the most important and powerful tool in your superhero tool belt, knowledge.
Intro:Never fear, hub heroes. Get ready to don your cape and mask, move into action, and become the hub hero your organization needs. Tune in each week to join the league of extraordinary inbound heroes as we help you educate, empower, and execute. Hub Heroes, it's time to unite and activate your powers. Before we begin, we need to disclose that Devin is currently employed by HubSpot at the time of this episode's recording.
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Max Cohen:Liz. Me? Oh, where were you on January 6?
George B. Thomas:Yeah. That's how that interview is gonna go, baby.
Max Cohen:And an all day leadership team meeting going, hey, guys. Have you seen what's happening on CNN? Or
George B. Thomas:is that
Max Cohen:what they were calling it they were calling it an all day leadership meeting. Yeah. Exactly. That's what it was. That's where they peaceful and peaceful and patriotic all day leadership meeting.
Chad Hohn:That's right. Here they lead.
George B. Thomas:So hang on. You didn't even say the year, bro. So does she have a leadership meeting on that date every year?
Max Cohen:That would be convenient, wouldn't it be?
George B. Thomas:Yeah. It would be.
Max Cohen:Yeah. Sounds like an alibi to me.
Liz Moorhead:Convenient, wouldn't it?
Chad Hohn:Seems like a possibility.
Liz Moorhead:Well, Max,
Max Cohen:I know I'm just explain it can someone explain the the topic of the episode so that joke works? Yeah. How does that do?
George B. Thomas:We we should probably do that.
Max Cohen:Yeah. And I'm sorry for the guys I'll figure out
Liz Moorhead:my camera. But welcome to a very special episode that I have already immediately regret agreeing to. A couple weeks ago, one of our listeners said they would really like to hear an episode where the guys just ask me questions about content. Whatever they want. My thoughts.
Liz Moorhead:So hi. I'm Liz Morehead, content therapist, AI poet. Ask me anything. George, I'm gonna turn it over to you to be the master of ceremonies while I just kinda get emotionally uncomfortable here.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. Yeah. Get ready to be in the, therapy chair, for this episode. So here's the thing. What I want all the listeners to know is, listen, I have been working with, each other for the last two years.
George B. Thomas:A lot of what you see on Sidekick Strategies, George b Thomas, like, it's it's that content. It's human centric. It's on brand. It's, like, super powerful. Like, we just it's been a a pleasure being able to create valuable content to the world together.
George B. Thomas:And so I'm actually super excited, that another human, another human was like, hey. Can we dive into Liz's brain? As scary as it may be, I added that last part. They didn't. And so we we get to ask you questions, around content and all that good stuff.
George B. Thomas:So I'll I'll start. I'll throw one out, because I definitely wanna make sure that we hit upon this. And if we do it first, we won't won't run out of time. Right? So, Liz, here's the thing.
George B. Thomas:Where we're at now, we have AI tools that are rapidly advancing. And so how do you see the role of content creators, content strategist evolving in the next three, five years? And and I guess I wanna add on to this. Will it become more about managing AI outputs, or do you think the human element will remain central to effective content creation? What what are your thoughts on that topic?
Liz Moorhead:You know that this that my answer to this question has to start with the fact that, like, full disclosure, I was dragged kicking, screaming, complaining, asking if I was being punished, going into yes. George is pointing at himself. He got me there. He got me there. I was at first, I was definitely one of those, like, basement dwelling mouth breathers.
Liz Moorhead:Like, put my art, put my craft. This will but then I started sitting with what my actual fear was. I wasn't concerned about my job ever being taken away. My concern was that AI in the hands of the many would create quite frankly much of what we are seeing today. Right?
Liz Moorhead:What we're seeing today is an uncanny valley effect. And for those who aren't aware what uncanny valley is, it's essentially this scientific principle that the closer something that isn't human is tried to make look human like, for example, we love Disney characters. Right? Disney characters, but we know they don't look real. They look like a cartoon.
Liz Moorhead:They feel safe. They feel whatever. But then we see robots that are meant to look like humans, and they freak us out. We don't like it. We have an aversion to it.
Liz Moorhead:We do not trust it. Right? We're starting to see that with content, And I'm sure you guys have heard the same thing. Like, I don't know what's wrong with this content, but I could tell it's AI. I just I can't put my finger on it.
Liz Moorhead:Don't trust it. Something something's off. So the reason why I tell this story is because when I think about where content like, the role of the content strategist is evolving, the content creator, I think there is I'll say it. Some of the fear is substantiated. I think for some people who have been coasting without having developed meaningful brand voice, strategy, storytelling skills where they're not where where they're sitting here saying, what is this blog post gonna be?
Liz Moorhead:And said, who is this for? What do they need from us? How are they gonna show up? I think for those people, yeah, maybe you should find a different discipline or maybe those skills you need to hone because that is really what we're gonna be looking at in terms of AI. I actually have people coming to me asking me for more advice than ever about content creation, about content strategy, the content audit, George, that you and I did this week.
George B. Thomas:Yep.
Liz Moorhead:There are certain things where AI is going to extend and amplify the power of people who understand there is a human component of the art of content that will never be replaced. You can get close. You can have facsimiles, but you will always have something that feels off if you don't do that level of work. So this is why, you know, I've talked to there are a few content managers who I've known through the years who will periodically just do coffee chats with me. We'll just hang out, talk shop, catch up.
Liz Moorhead:And I'm finding the skill sets that I am referring to people in terms of how they differentiate themselves, and I'm like, is it human storytelling? Understanding that empathy is not the only way you show up as a human being in content. This is something you and I have talked about, George. Empathy is something that is so important and overinflated in terms of its importance in terms of how we do content storytelling. But that that's where I see this going.
Liz Moorhead:It has placed a greater premium on people who have those skills. And if you find someone like a George who will drag you kicking and screaming and help you understand you're not being artist, you're being a masochist, you're just being sad to yourself, like, you will learn how to extend your superpowers by amplifying the smart parts of the process that take the most time so you can do more high value work.
George B. Thomas:So many of those words bring me great joy to hear you actually say that. And and the the the fun part is and this is not a sales pitch, but, like, being able to do that content audit and give it to the potential client and them have the eye like, I don't see ChatGPT having a discovery meeting and and delivering it in a human way that actually engages and interacts. So love love that you came kicking and screaming. Love where you're at with this right now. So, Chad, Max, your turn.
George B. Thomas:Let's just
Max Cohen:Why are we so sure that the human element cannot be replaced by AI, Liz?
Liz Moorhead:It comes down to what fundamentally happens in a human interaction. So I'll tell you a hypothetical, not so hypothetical story. There was a girl I used to know in my twenties where, like, she was the best bitch to brunch with. No joke. Always a great story, always something really good going on, But I always had her go to a very specific restaurant because I knew if we went to this restaurant at a specific time on Sunday in DC, she would get a window seat so I could see what kind of tornado of hell I was walking into.
Liz Moorhead:Right? Am I walking up? Am I seeing she has her head in her hands, and we've already got two empty mimosa glasses next to her? She hasn't dumped Kevin yet. He's still an asshole.
Liz Moorhead:We're still dealing with a lot of problems. Right? Or is she happy? Is
George B. Thomas:she happy? The beat button on this episode. Oh my gosh.
Liz Moorhead:Butthead. Kevin was a butthead. All names have been changed to protect the marginally innocent. Right? Or she might be in a great mood.
Liz Moorhead:There might be something going on, but I always needed to have emotional and situational awareness walking up to that table because I had to understand based on where she was, what she needed from me. Now this is where it gets really interesting. Right? I am still always Liz all the time, inserting godfather analogies where they do not belong, talking about Nicolas Cage to a degree that is deeply unhealthy. You know, like, all of these different things
George B. Thomas:Facts.
Liz Moorhead:But that is my voice. That is my all the time personality. But my tone will switch depending on where I'm at. Right?
Max Cohen:Mm-mm.
Liz Moorhead:Like, if she's if she's upset and she's sad and she's had head on the table, Moses, blah
Liz Moorhead:blah blah blah blah. Right? I'm showing up there like,
Liz Moorhead:hey, baby girl. What would Nicolas Cage do? The only thing he'd steal, the declaration of independence. If she's in a great mood, it's like, so we're going to National Archives. The declaration of independence is ours.
Liz Moorhead:Right? Mhmm. But that is a very human experience to sit and assess and understand what a human being isn't telling you and then understanding what parts of your personality you need to bring out, what stories that you need to tell in order to do that. You'll also just make wildly different editorial choices. So where does AI come into this?
Liz Moorhead:Mhmm.
Liz Moorhead:The thing I've noticed with AI and maybe at some point, this will change. You know? I am I am notorious for saying, I said this six months ago. I've learned something new. Here's what I've learned.
Liz Moorhead:This is what's changed.
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:But as it stands right now, there are always going to be editorial differences between,
Liz Moorhead:I will tell you what persona they have. I will tell you what they're feeling and why right now. This is my resume. These are examples of my voice. These are the things that I do.
Liz Moorhead:We'll get really dang close to that AI facsimile meeting that emotional human need where they are. But if I were to ask George to do the same thing, he'd probably start with, you know, this reminds me of a very specific time in my life where I was, you know, log cabin in the whatever.
George B. Thomas:Oh, yeah. Right? Tell the story. Come on.
Liz Moorhead:You know, it's it's the it's the it's the log cabin. It's the it it and rapping, there's a lot happening. Yeah. So when I think about what it is that AI lacks, it gets really close, Max. But what if I put two things down in front of me where we've prompted the crap out of AI?
Liz Moorhead:And George has done this, and he gets this from me every time. I'm like, George sauce is missing. Something's missing. There's a story missing here. There is the, let me get down on your level as a human being and relate to you.
Liz Moorhead:Right? But this is where I think people get it all wrong, Max. Like, why are we trying to fake that? That is the most important part of storytelling. That is the most important part.
Liz Moorhead:That is the high value work you should be doubling down on. And let AI deal with
Liz Moorhead:the stuff of, can you give me a good pros and cons, Salesforce versus HubSpot and a chart? Like, can you list that stuff out for me?
Liz Moorhead:Can you expand this section? You should be doing the work of building the human connections because that's how you make the sale. That is how you get peep like, when people sit in front of you in a sales conversation, that is when they are getting you. That is when they are getting that most authentic part of you. The goal of content isn't just to educate.
Liz Moorhead:It's also to create that human connection and experience before they get in front of you, earning the trust faster.
George B. Thomas:Now, Max, here's the thing. And then and then we'll go, Chad, to your question. Here's the thing, Max. In thirty years, when you've had a robot buddy for ten years, and the robot buddy can go you remember that day when we're gonna go meet Susie and you saw she had three mimosas and you just kept walking by? Now all of a sudden, there's a historical context, a historical timeline to where what Liz says is maybe a little bit different.
George B. Thomas:But I I'm I man, the amount of times that I've heard, where's the story? Where's the story? Like, where's the pain?
Liz Moorhead:Where's This could be written by anybody.
Max Cohen:Where's
Liz Moorhead:the story? Where are you? Why do you care about this? That's always the thing that comes up. The other thing I will say too to just kinda add a little bit on top of that is that I could also tell an AI prompt, like, hey.
Liz Moorhead:I wanna write an article called what is a content strategy. Here is a deeply detailed, like, experience of my time as a content manager, the time I was asked this question, how it feels, but it also doesn't get my brand of weird. Like, it's only ever going to eat what it's already consumed. It may not bring new metaphors or weird colorful language. It may not know that I want to describe what it felt like to be asked what a content strategy is and where is it when I thought that was my editorial calendar, and I wanted to sink into the floor and become one with the tile, and I could not do that.
George B. Thomas:Now I will say this I will say this, though, because I passed out then came to, when I was generating something, and it actually used the word ain't in it. And I was like, wait. What? Hold up. Anyway, Chad, what's what's your question for Liz?
Chad Hohn:Yeah. I mean, I had, you know, kind of, like, an idea of a question before, like, an e syncing of a question before
Liz Moorhead:Concept of a question, maybe?
Chad Hohn:The a question of a question, my own questioning mind.
Max Cohen:Mhmm.
Chad Hohn:And I was questioning it, actually.
Max Cohen:The question that's existing within the context
Chad Hohn:of you. Questioning it. Yeah. But, anyway, but I I kinda have, like you know, I wanna connect a couple dots here because, like, I think what George was talking about is really interesting, and then I wanna ask Liz a question. Right?
Chad Hohn:Because, like, what Max asked is, do we think you know, why are we so sure that this can't actually become a human thing? And then, like, we were talking about a discovery call. Like, oh, well, if you have an AI, do a discovery call. Is it gonna connect humanly? Right?
Chad Hohn:And there's, like, a couple pieces I wanna bring in here too just, like, for for context. But, like, if you could program an AI model even with, like, a video avatar that could do a discovery call or something, right, like, a video gets better or video like, if people knew that it was an AI, even though a superhuman person programmed it and built this model that was bringing it in, do you think people would pay for that discovery call or, you know, like, that service. Right? Whatever service that you're building, you're getting an AI to do some of the more grunt worky type front end stuff, you know, on that business service. And, I mean, you know, this could be for providing content strategy.
Chad Hohn:You take the brain dump of your experiences. I mean, like, for for me, like, every waking moment of my professional life is recorded in Zoom. Yeah. You know? And, like, you just dump all that stuff up, and it just chunks on it with the old brain wallet for a while and a whole bunch of NVIDIA GPU cluster and then spits out, like, you know, Chad discovery call extraordinaire, right, or something like that.
Chad Hohn:Or, like Right. Is that, like, a world that could happen? And, like, do you think people would pay for that? It or is that, like, something that would be just too is it, like, too spooky for us right now? It's gonna become commonplace in the future?
Chad Hohn:I mean, like, you know, nobody had computers. Nobody had a just a information highway in their pocket every second of every day. Like, nobody had the ability to connect to the Internet anywhere in the world because there's, like, 7,000 satellites just beaming interwebs down everywhere. Right? Like, this is all stuff that just, like, in such a short period of time because AI is increasing faster than double every seven years like Moore's law would state.
Chad Hohn:I mean, it's just bonkers how fast it's going. You know, what are your feelings or thoughts about? Or are we really, again, to reiterate what Max is talking about with, like, additional context? Like, would people pay for that kind of a service if it could be built, or, like, is that something that we should even be considering? Right?
Liz Moorhead:So It's a hard have no. But I have more open minded thoughts here than you might think. Like, I'm not gonna sit here and
Liz Moorhead:be like, well, we should hug all the humans all the time, and it's all great. Right? Like, the reality is
George B. Thomas:I mean, I like hugs.
Liz Moorhead:Yeah. I do like hugs. Me too. But the reality is is it's gonna matter on about context. Right?
Liz Moorhead:So when I think about, like, some of the track transactions I have right now that may not be AI, maybe they are. I don't know. I think about, like, the little chatbots that I talk to when I'm dealing with customer service. You know, I'm thinking about more transactional conversations. Right?
Liz Moorhead:I think it depends on as an there these are gonna be organizational decisions that you're gonna have to make. Right? When you think about the value of a discovery call, is it just transactional information that should be given? Right? And I don't I don't think that's the case.
Liz Moorhead:I think there are some people who will do that, but the value of a discovery call is kinda like to size each other up. It's not just about it is not just about at least from me when I have both been in sales roles and when I have been talking to someone on a sales team. I'm not just looking for, I'm not just looking for an answer to a question. I'm trying to understand how you problem solve. I'm trying to understand who's the ahs behind the curtain, and is there a vibe fit there?
Chad Hohn:Sure.
Liz Moorhead:Right? So I think it's going to depend be heavily dependent on what your sales process is and what it is that you do and sell. Because if you're in b to c and it's product and it's a onetime transaction, that may be something that's fine. But if we're talking about a discovery call, my guys, what is it actually that we're discovering? It sounds like what we're communicating is that we don't have enough time to talk to you unless you actually wanna give us money.
Liz Moorhead:And I think that is a very hilarious stance to take, especially in a b to b space where everybody's a trusted partner. Everybody's strategically on your side. Did you know our people are our greatest differentiator? Wow, Janice. I'd really love to know that if you could show me them.
Liz Moorhead:Right? Like like, that's the thing. This is I think what we're going to see is the choices that organizations make with AI Mhmm. Are going to communicate whether they like it or not, how much they actually value the partnerships, the relationship building. Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Again, you should be using AI at strategic parts of your process. What if you built a great AI tool on your website that had the answers to the most pressing questions of your customers that allowed them to get some of that firsthand knowledge in a self-service way.
Max Cohen:Mhmm.
Liz Moorhead:But when they talk to sales, they are talking to a human being. Mhmm. Now, again, I'm sure there will be creative ways in which we will see AI integrated into our lives. In fact, I'm sure we will find ways that AI will trick us into like, oh my god. I didn't realize that wasn't a human.
Max Cohen:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Congratulations. You just broke the trust of your customer.
George B. Thomas:Mhmm. So so I know, Chad, you have a question you wanna ask, but I have to dip into that if if what Liz just said created some curiosity of, like, wait. What do you mean tricked that I'm a human or not a human in a world where that's actually a possibility? You should go listen to today's episode of wake up with AI where we actually day?
Liz Moorhead:It's because this will drop
George B. Thomas:Oh, this is, this is 10:18, the morning of 10:18. Go listen to WakeUpAI where we talked about retinal scanners for humans versus
Max Cohen:bots. Anyway Okay. Nerd. Nerd. Nerd.
Max Cohen:Nerd. Chat. Chat. Chat, you have
George B. Thomas:a you have a question, brother. Nerd.
Chad Hohn:Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm just you know, I was just saying, like, imagine a world like, this is where my brain went. Like, imagine a world where you have, like, the ability to have a full beans, like, here's a triage of everything that we offer as a b to b or a b to c space, AI interaction, and it's a page on your site where when people are trying to learn about your business and they don't really wanna commit to talking to somebody yet, but you have this super sick resource where they can interact with something almost like they're on a meeting, but it's all AI, that sucker spits out some sort of a customer fit metric and then goes back into your CRM. And when they book a call, you already know a lot about that customer because of their interactions with your really helpful resource that tells them who you are and what you do. And, honestly, it probably saves your team time.
Chad Hohn:But the delivery mechanism is, I think, really awesome, like, that Liz was talking about. Like, hey. We actually care about you because when you schedule a meeting with us, we're gonna talk to you with a human. But, like, we also have this super dope thing where you can tell we care about, like, giving our humans force multipliers to their day and allowing them to actually engage and, you know, be with you present. Like, I mean, man, it it's funny.
Chad Hohn:At RBP, like, she she talks about the human element. And and at our company, Roofing Business Partner, we have, like, a sales rep that, like, every time he's finally done and gets a guy like, a salesperson, you know, across the finish line, like, the the roofing company that he sold, like, the dude practically wants to marry him. You know? Like, I mean, they just love him. He's like a van lifer, and he'll just talk to him for, like, five hours on the phone, you know, and just, like hey.
Chad Hohn:He's awesome. I won't name him, but he has been on TV. So there you go.
George B. Thomas:Okay. There you go. So I'm only I'm gonna throw down one more rule. One rule as we move forward because I don't want this to be the Liz AI show.
Chad Hohn:Right. Right.
George B. Thomas:Any question that we ask moving forward can't have anything to do with AI, but everything to do with content.
Max Cohen:Sure. I got one. Alright, Liz. I've been saying this for a while, and I want you to tell me if I'm crazy or not. Yes.
Max Cohen:So oftentimes when I'd be having conversation with customers, even back when I was, like, onboarding. Right? There was all the, you know, back then, it was like, get them to blog, get them to blog, get them to blog. Right? Because that was, like, the lowest barrier of entry, I think, to content creation back in the day.
Max Cohen:Right? And I still, to an extent, maybe it is today too. Right? But I, you know, a lot of people would start to ask me about video. And, obviously, as I started getting more into the creating video for I hate saying the word b to b, but, you know, TikTok ing about HubSpot era of my life, you know, and people would ask me kind of, you know, how to get into it or why it's important.
Max Cohen:You know, the line that I would commonly refer back to is, like, we're in the age of where people like to watch, not read. Right? And is that maybe just because I don't like reading, or is there any merit to that, statement? What do you think?
Liz Moorhead:Yes and no. So this this reminds me of the conversation, Max, that we had during an episode a long time ago about is blogging dead. And the thing that always frustrates me the most is that we have this very binary approach to how we think about content modalities. Right?
Chad Hohn:Mhmm.
Liz Moorhead:And I think mostly because for a long time, it was so one dimensional.
Liz Moorhead:It is a blog. There will be a CTA at the bottom.
Liz Moorhead:Congratulations. Inbound. Right? Like, that was it. And then as we started adding
Max Cohen:Smack that ebook button. Sorry. I had to say it. Bam.
Liz Moorhead:Smash that like button. But as we started introducing more modalities and different types of content. Right? Even different types of written content, people get very antsy and say, well, okay. Clearly, this is no longer working anymore, and we're moving to this.
Liz Moorhead:And very rare and we see this not just in the content spaces. Marketers do this all the time. Oh, so we're not doing this anymore. We're doing this now. It's no.
Liz Moorhead:No. No. No, guys. This is a yes and. This is a both and.
Liz Moorhead:This is a because. So, Max, I think for a lot of people, the ability to democratize educational video, education by visual learning has opened up a lot of abilities for people who just aren't voracious readers. Right?
Max Cohen:Yep.
Liz Moorhead:But let me let me get to my point here. Hold on because I see you winding up. The thing, though, is that I see a lot of people like, there's still people like me. Right? Like, I really enjoy video.
Liz Moorhead:I enjoy it a lot. But for things I'm really learning, I'm an insane person who has a printer right here, and I have to print it out and I have to highlight it. If there are things I really need to learn exactly if there are things I really need to learn, I need to also have written stuff because I don't always catch everything when I'm listening to it. I don't always understand things when I'm watching it. But when I have a chance to stop and stare and look at something, to see the words, I just learn better.
Liz Moorhead:So what I think is we're seeing the support of a diversity of learning styles, but also in some industries, you may just have greater visual learners. You may have people who are more academic, so they may be more heavily weighted there. This is where I think it comes to understanding your audience. I don't think you're wrong, Max, in saying what you said, because I think for a lot of people, that's true. Thank god there's video because I'm not listening.
Liz Moorhead:For George, let's use a completely different context. How many books have you read this year, George?
George B. Thomas:Oh, don't
Liz Moorhead:Because you listened to them.
Chad Hohn:Yeah. Right.
George B. Thomas:It's it's a lot.
Chad Hohn:I have read a lot of books.
George B. Thomas:It's a yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Right. But here's the thing. I can't do audiobooks because I won't pay attention. I'll stop listening. I'll zone out.
Liz Moorhead:So, again, this is where I'm kinda getting to the like, it's a yes and max, and I'm not trying to, like, backdoor my way out of an answer. I this is what I truly believe. I wish content creators and businesses would stop saying, well, this is
Liz Moorhead:now dead because we have a new thing.
Liz Moorhead:Like, no. Diversify or understand your audience and what their preferences are and wait it. Sure.
George B. Thomas:So Yeah. But I I I wanna throw this in there, real quick because I have learned something about myself, not that this podcast is about me. But I have realized that if I can listen to it and see it at the same time, it's it's double, if not triple the impact.
Liz Moorhead:Magic. Magic.
George B. Thomas:So to me, I'm like, I'm I'm getting to the point where I think I wanna buy the audiobook and the physical book so I can listen to it and look at it while I'm listening to it and then also mark up, like, the the book highlight and all that. Because I've noticed when I use something like natural reader to, like, read a blog article, I actually don't just listen. I end up looking up and watching the words as it's, like, highlighting it and talking to me. And I'm like, oh, wow. I I really I understand that better than if I just listened to it.
Chad Hohn:Anyway Mhmm. Super attention at that point.
Max Cohen:How we're listening listening to that keyboard right now.
George B. Thomas:Keys, girl. I'm just gonna throw that out there.
Liz Moorhead:But to make a note. Sorry about that, guys.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. No worries. No worries. So who wants I have a question, but who wants to go next? I'll wait and then go after that.
Chad Hohn:That you go. I mean, you haven't asked a question, I think, in a while.
George B. Thomas:So, Liz, actually, I have two I wanna ask. I'll ask this one and if we can fit the next one, and then we'll get to it. Liz, I wanna ask you what you have seen as the most common silent killers of content programs, and how do you identify and address them before it's too late?
Liz Moorhead:This is where I put on my content therapist hat and hold up a content doll and say where in the doll does it hurt, and then we go from there. Because it really is going to depend on the organization. So for example, I look at I think of it like symptoms. Right? Like, if somebody's telling me it feels like we're reinventing the wheel every time we're creating content, that means you don't have a documented process with platforms that support the process with people who provide governance, oversight, execution, and accountability.
Liz Moorhead:Like, that that's what it says right there. Like, one of the biggest killers is you do not actually have content infrastructure. You you you know how to write a blog article. You have a content strategy. You maybe use Google Docs.
Liz Moorhead:Maybe you use No. Guys, it is a machine. Like, you should be putting in ideas and content spits out. You should have frameworks in place with an owner overseeing it who says, hey, guys. Absolutely.
Liz Moorhead:We'd love to do that, but there's no room in our schedule for that. So if we're saying yes to this, what are we saying no to? When I was the editor in chief at Impact, I had a very regimented ninety day cycle that I ran for couple years where I literally put, and these are Bob Ruffalo's three flex spots where he could just blow up my life and ask for three things every month. They don't roll over. You can't keep them like vacation days, but they're there.
Liz Moorhead:Right? So it's about, do you actually have a system? It reminds me of the book atomic habits. Right? You know, you don't fall to the level of your habits.
Liz Moorhead:You fall
George B. Thomas:to the
Chad Hohn:level of
Liz Moorhead:your systems. Hi, Max.
Max Cohen:I know. I know.
Liz Moorhead:So I would say that's one of the number one that's number the one content program killers. Another one is, you're not actually committed to content. Like, this is a very basic one. Mhmm. But, like, I remember in the in a conversation we recently had, George, with a client, you know, I said, hey.
Liz Moorhead:I'm actually not here to provide any judgment on what's happening. I asked very few questions going into this audit intentionally because I wanted to just go fresh and see what I would find. And the symptoms I'm finding here says to me, there isn't really a content priority. So probably the reason why you're seeing some challenges here is, like, you like, I think I'm seeing a symptom of we haven't committed one way or the other, and we feel guilty about not having made that decision.
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:And so often, like, it's just a lack of commitment, and I see that actually with no judgment. I'm not sitting here
Liz Moorhead:everybody should have a content program.
Liz Moorhead:No. One of the other clients that George and I work on together, and I'm there for content, we don't have a content strategy running for them currently. We're doing plenty of other stuff that is really geared toward their bottom line. We're doing tons of sales enablement things. We're doing a lot of website stuff.
Liz Moorhead:Like, that's just not the priority right now. So I think sometimes what will happen is that you will have organizations who believe they should be doing content. So they start doing content, but they don't they're not bought in, and it's not buy in. It's just like maybe it's actually not right for them. So they're kinda doing it 50% to see if it'll work.
Liz Moorhead:But if, again, if you don't put the systems in place with the owner and you actually commit to doing a strategy that is built around your business, like, if you're not doing it and you're doing it 50, it's always gonna hurt. So just have a conversation internally. No one's gonna judge you. Content Santa isn't gonna put you on a naughty list. Like, just you're either doing it or you're not doing it.
Liz Moorhead:And the other thing I will say is that this is the greatest content sin in Georgia. I haven't even told you this one.
Max Cohen:Uh-oh.
Liz Moorhead:I believe two things are true about great content.
George B. Thomas:I hope this is
Liz Moorhead:It is selfless. No. It is selfless education, and we need to stop pretending we're not in the business of persuasion. Oh. We have had so much blowback.
Liz Moorhead:I don't like sales. I don't wanna talk to sales. I don't wanna feel like I'm persuading.
Liz Moorhead:We're not here as, like, charity robots, guys
Max Cohen:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Just, like, doling out education. Do we have conviction and firm beliefs about what it is that we are teaching and educating about? A %. Do we have a very specific point of view that we are bringing out into the world and for the right people, this is right for them? Absolutely.
Liz Moorhead:The number one killer I see of content is we've stopped trying to make an argument. We stopped trying to have an opinion because we're so afraid that we're gonna be seen as selling. Make an argument. Like, George, you and I have been talking about Aristotle's rhetoric, and I have been studying it.
George B. Thomas:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:It's the art of persuasion.
Chad Hohn:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:That is what rhetoric is, and it's ethos, logos, and pathos.
George B. Thomas:I love it.
Liz Moorhead:Logos is your facts, what it is that you're talking about, the way you're making the case. Your ethos is actually not your values. Yeah. It's not your values. It's not this.
Liz Moorhead:Ethos actually is what what is your authority to be reporting on these facts? Empathos, emotional appeal. Mhmm. Are you recognizing the human beings in front of you, and are you showing up accordingly? And empathy is a small fraction of that.
Liz Moorhead:We have to stop pretending we're not in the business of persuasion, guys. What that's like I remember when I stood on stage at Impact Live at 02/2019, and I put on a giant screen behind me that says, I like content that makes money. And people started laughing, and they got uncomfortable. I'm like, we need to stop pretending that we're here to what? We're making them aware of our brand so they'll wanna go to lunch with us?
Liz Moorhead:No.
George B. Thomas:I like lunch.
Liz Moorhead:Want them money. I like sandwiches and lunch, but, like, that's not what we're here for.
George B. Thomas:I don't know why we're smashing hugs and lunch, on this podcast.
Liz Moorhead:Maybe I just need a hug, and I'm cranky and hungry.
Liz Moorhead:But, yeah, those are my thoughts.
Max Cohen:Yeah. Yep.
Liz Moorhead:Those are my thoughts.
Chad Hohn:That's good.
George B. Thomas:Anybody else have a question? Because if not, I got I got one more, but I want you guys to, like, have an opportunity here with content.
Chad Hohn:That whole thing talking about the strategy, I was just was, like, so, you know, captured by that last little bit. I mean, it you know, because, like, I'm not, you know, I'm I'm all on the technical side. Like, I don't really do anything with websites. The the con my content is, like, orchestrating a structure of a HubSpot portal for somebody to use so that they like to use it, so they wanna do their job. So it's a force multiplier for the business.
Chad Hohn:Right? That's, like, my kind of content. The guy like I make the UI look good and work well and do the things repeatably. Right? That's, like, for me.
Chad Hohn:But I I would in in that vein, I I guess my question for Liz is, like, does the out of the box HubSpot marketing hub, like, calendar and tasking and all of that business, the like, does that actually get the job done, or is it, like, is that a big turd or what? You know? Like, what do you think?
Liz Moorhead:I really hope I really hope no one from HubSpot is listing.
Chad Hohn:Because, like yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Yeah.
Chad Hohn:Because you don't use it. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. Because, like, I look at it
Liz Moorhead:I'm gonna ask you what it is.
Chad Hohn:Admin, but I don't know the things. So I don't know if, like I'm like, oh, yeah. This is where you do your tasking, and here's where your posts are scheduled, and here's where your content. You guys could work on it. You can have mention each other.
Chad Hohn:You know? Or or is that not gonna cut it for them? Right?
Liz Moorhead:Here yeah. So, here's my realistic and honest answer. And I say this as someone who sued.
George B. Thomas:Just I will get sued. Ask. Don't get a sued.
Liz Moorhead:I love HubSpot, and my answer is informed by two very distinct use cases. I have been a content leader inside for a for an in house company. So I was at a HubSpot Diamond Partner agency that also had a massive media company side of the business, and I exclusively ran our content. That included five to 10 new articles a week, four different podcasts, videos, and digital curriculum. Okay?
Liz Moorhead:So not small stuff. I have also been service side where I am using HubSpot to develop, build, and execute content strategies. I will tell you, I find most of it to be window dressing. I don't really find the SEO content strategy tool, for example, to be terribly helpful. Mostly because I think, for example, that tool in particular has a bit of an identity crisis.
Liz Moorhead:Is this here to help me track a campaign, or is it help here to help me build a strategy? And it's here to help me build a strategy. You're doing so with a lot of assumptions about, quite frankly, the strategic know how of the person clicking the buttons. Like, it's not really built for that. I also find the content tracking in the campaigns tool to be much more effective.
Liz Moorhead:I have used it sometimes if I really wanna track the growth of a topic cluster overall. But for the most part, that's just like an extra step. Now, also, here's where we have to get into the human side of the business. Right? So I work for chuckleheads like George.
Liz Moorhead:And I say chucklehead as a sign of his Wow. I love you so much.
George B. Thomas:Holy mackerel. Do we know
Max Cohen:do you wanna know why they say
Chad Hohn:I don't have my thing.
Liz Moorhead:Do you wanna know why I say chuckleheads?
Max Cohen:That rhymes.
Liz Moorhead:Because every content manager who who rises up in the ranks is going to deal with type a executive folks who need to know answers now. They do not want to click in to 18 different tabs of HubSpot and a navigation that is constantly changing to understand where something is or what's happening. They are not interested in that if they are even inside the tool at all. So the way like, you have to come up with a communication strategy with your leadership, with your executive team. And I guarantee you, the moment you're making a C suite executive click on their own into somewhere in a HubSpot portal to figure out where something is, you've already kinda lost the battle.
Liz Moorhead:So often, I'm gonna be doing my project management where my c suite is going to be doing most of their work. Because I need to be able to do 80% of my communication with my c suite, with my leadership. Whoever I'm reporting to as a content leader within my organization where they don't have to proactively ask me where something is or what they need to click. It needs to be something native, quick, fast, and easy. Boom.
George B. Thomas:Alright. So Here
Chad Hohn:we go.
George B. Thomas:Here here's what I'm gonna say to you. Trouble. No. You're not in trouble, and I don't disagree with anything you said. Chad, let's get nerdy for a second.
George B. Thomas:Oh. And specifically to what Liz said. C suite
Max Cohen:Mhmm.
George B. Thomas:If doing it right, should be in HubSpot because HubSpot is the all in one place for their team, sales, marketing service. It should be the home base for their reporting. So Mhmm. They they should be in there. Here's the thing.
George B. Thomas:If somebody at HubSpot is listening anybody in there?
Chad Hohn:Oh, it's just Poor, poor Mike. Yeah. If
George B. Thomas:if if anybody is listening, if we were to take the projects tool and graduate it to what it could be And, actually, like, there there is a world where you could have, like, a ClickUp, Asana, Teamworks inside of HubSpot. Yes. They would just take the time to code projects to be what projects could be, but it's sat there for the last four or five years Yeah. And not been changed or turned into anything. And so could the content strategy tools because by the way, Liz was talking about the topic cluster tool Right.
George B. Thomas:Right. Right. SEO recommendations. Because by the way, SEO recommendations are very valuable and useful for you as a HubSpot user and your website and making it good. But, like so imagine a world where it's topic cluster
Max Cohen:Mhmm.
George B. Thomas:Campaigns tool, SEO recommendations, and a project management system for content around especially now that you've got podcasts
Max Cohen:Mhmm.
George B. Thomas:In HubSpot. Right. So now you got podcasts, case studies, articles. Yo, we need a way to manage all of what you're building over here. So can somebody please catch up?
Max Cohen:Mhmm.
Chad Hohn:Anyway Well, I mean, on the marketing calendar, you're supposed to be able to, like, add tasks and do a couple things. Right? But, like You can. That seems like it's those tasks aren't connected to projects. Like, I remember being an inbound.
Chad Hohn:I think it was, like, the HubSpot Academy timeline. Right? And it's like, oh, yeah. In 2019, we released HubSpot projects, and it's like a footnote in history because it's there. But, like okay.
Chad Hohn:Great.
George B. Thomas:Yeah. The the fact that you have sales tasks, marketing tasks, and projects Yeah. They're not the same thing.
Max Cohen:Yeah. Mhmm.
Chad Hohn:Yeah. It's I mean, that goes back, I think, to some of HubSpot architecture. Like, not every object is a first class citizen object. Right? Yeah.
Chad Hohn:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Well, I think the other reality is is that if we think about and I'm thinking about the c suite folks who I have worked with in different organizations. Right? Like, George, getting you to use HubSpot in the way it's possibly intended with the project's tool, I don't see that as a problem for you. But that's because HubSpot is in your DNA. But if I think about businesses where HubSpot is not part of their daily workflow, that's where I tend to run into problems.
Liz Moorhead:Because the moment I have to ask a CEO to open up a different tool that they will never use except for this, they're gonna get cranky. Usually, what they want is a link that is public basing, that is a single source of truth that they could take a look at at 3AM when they're wondering where something is, and I really don't want them texting me. You know what I mean? Like, it's stuff like that. Or we had a client for a long time where, like, they are just more relationship focused people.
Liz Moorhead:He wanted to talk to me. Mhmm. He wanted to have conversations.
George B. Thomas:On the phone.
Liz Moorhead:Is where I I know. But this is where I would say content managers this is the thing I always teach when I do content manager training is always the first module. You are a relationship manager first. That is what you are. If people see you when you're coming down the hallway virtual or otherwise and they start running and they don't wanna work with you, your job is already done.
Liz Moorhead:Your jewel your goal is to understand what people need from you, and and I mean that in the needs that they're not telling you. You need to go out of your way to become fluent in the language style of their communication. Your job, yes, is to get them to see the value of the content of your creating, but, like, don't be the food blogger who tells me 18,000 paragraphs about grandmother and the meatballs before you actually give me the meatball recipe. I don't care. Don't make people work that hard and then be upset when they don't get what they do.
Liz Moorhead:Like, what you do. Like, that's just the reality. Your goal is to be a relationship manager. Uh-oh, Max.
George B. Thomas:Max, what what do you think is now now, Max, we're moving into the questions that can be answered in one minute or less because we're quickly running out of time, but what's on your brain?
Max Cohen:No. I'm just about to have, like, a you guys mentioned the projects tool, and I, you you know how, like, there were some tools that were just hidden behind, like, the global search
George B. Thomas:for a while?
Max Cohen:Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. I, I went in there to be like, oh, where's the how do how do you even get to that project's tool anymore? Like, does it does it still exist?
Max Cohen:And, I stumbled upon, the knowledge base article about it. And, I I didn't notice it until right this very moment that Uh-oh. This projects tool, which arguably hasn't been touched since I was onboarding customers with it Yep. This glorified to do list on your iPhone sits right below the product updates tab Yeah. In the main top right.
Chad Hohn:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:Yeah.
Max Cohen:Yet we're stuffing playbooks in the library tab? In the menu? Who made this decision? Oh god. To put a whole another episode.
Max Cohen:To do this the
Liz Moorhead:Oh my god. Next episode, Max Cohen airing of grievances.
Max Cohen:Right next to the HubSpot Academy link.
George B. Thomas:Somebody call 911.
Max Cohen:Put play books in the godforsaken library tab. Oh, there's nothing behind me up, Max. And we're going to the guy. To explode. I didn't even know that was sitting I didn't know you could access this tool anymore.
Max Cohen:Yet I god. I'm gonna shut up before I Do you know who you remind
Liz Moorhead:me of right now? You remind for my for my chronically online TikTokers out there, the guy who screams at people to wash their rice, that's who you were just now.
Max Cohen:Okay. I am just sorry. I'm,
George B. Thomas:You need a minute, Brian?
Max Cohen:I'm over I'm overcome with rage.
Chad Hohn:I think I saw a beat
Max Cohen:about to blow, man. Of all the decisions of all the decisions that were made about HubSpot's navigation this past year.
Liz Moorhead:Yeah.
Liz Moorhead:I'm just so glad you would've gotta be
Max Cohen:for that. Objects to a sitting in the main nav, I'm speechless.
Chad Hohn:Well, not really.
Max Cohen:You're the opposite you're the opposite of speechless.
George B. Thomas:I just I don't know if you know what that word means, but
Liz Moorhead:I'm just the opposite of that. Minutes later.
Max Cohen:I'm so confused.
Chad Hohn:Oh, it's ticklish. Yeah. That was great.
George B. Thomas:Let's let's land the plane, Liz. What's the one takeaway that you wanna leave people around content before we get them back to their regularly scheduled day?
Liz Moorhead:And a lot of tools and a lot of things can become distraction. They are very shiny bells and whistles. There are gonna be lots of new ways to to create content, to distribute content, to ideate, to do all of those different things. But at the end of the day, content is your way of creating a connection with the people, the humans you are trying to help with what it is that you do or sell better than anybody else. You either care about helping humans or you don't, and you can't fake that.
Liz Moorhead:And what's going to happen is that we are now finding greater ways to have more shortcuts put in front of us. The companies that actually give a thing about the humans that they are serving. Look. We can purse two things can be true. We can admit we're in the business of persuasion.
Liz Moorhead:We can also be people who are genuinely trying to help, genuinely trying to be of service. And I think the distinctions between the companies that are actually that way and those who say they are that way, it's going to become much more abundantly clear. Content is all about the art and artistry of what you never see. It is the iceberg that is only strong because of the piece that is under the water. There is art to this.
Liz Moorhead:There are tools now that we have at our disposal to automate, refine, and scale certain parts of our process, but you're still an artist. Don't forget it.
George B. Thomas:Okay. Hub Heroes, we've reached the end of another episode. Will Lord Lack continue to loom over the community, or will we be able to defeat him in the next episode of the Hub Heroes podcast? Make sure you tune in and find out in the next episode. Make sure you head over to the hubheroes.com to get the latest episodes and become part of the League of Heroes.
George B. Thomas:FYI, if you're part of the League of Heroes, you'll get the show notes right in your inbox, and they come with some hidden power up potential as well. Make sure you share this podcast with a friend. Leave a review if you like what you're listening to, and use the hashtag, hashtag hub euros podcast on any of the socials, and let us know what strategy conversation you'd like to listen into next. Until next time, when we meet and combine our forces, remember to be a happy, helpful, humble human, and, of course, always be looking for a way to be someone's hero.
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